Ep. 265: Cecilia Gray on How To Write About the Pandemic

Cecilia Gray writes about first love, second chances, and forever friendships. She has written over twenty young-adult and romance titles. That Was Then, a pandemic midlife reboot tale, is her first contemporary mainstream novel. Cecilia used the pandemic for a midlife reboot of her own and is currently slow traveling the world with her two cats. You can read more about her work at ceciliagray.com.

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Rachael Herron: Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:16] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode # 265 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. Today, I’m talking with the marvelous Cecilia Gray, who is a friend of mine. She is a good friend of mine. And she is so awesome that I honestly based one of my main characters on her once, the main character of Cora’s Heart is based on her. I wonder if she remembers that, probably not. She’s unique, an individual, and a powerhouse, and a talent that is unstoppable. And it was so fun to talk to her about what it is like writing about a pandemic and some of you have come to me and ask this question. Should I be writing about this? Should I not be? So, it was really fun to talk to her about that. I know you’re going to enjoy. What has been going on around here, just work, honestly, just work. If you watch on the YouTube, you can still see that I am in the school house, still here until November 1st. I am recording this on October 22nd. So we’ve got about 10 more, I don’t, can’t do the math, nine more days and then we move into our home and that’s going to be really, really exciting. So I can’t wait for that.

[00:01:27] But while I am waiting for that, I am just editing books one through three of the five book romance series that I got back the rights for, books four and five are already up. Books one through three, I am going over again and I tell you, it continues to be incredibly frustrating and also pretty fun because I had forgotten how fun these books are. There are some really fun bits. There are some bits that are just delightful to go through. And also it is very satisfying to bring sentences up to a level that I am happy with. They didn’t all suck, but some of them could be stronger. And so those have been fun to fix. I actually did find a proofer who’s going to go over them. Thank God. I was going to, as I said, last week, I was going to upload them in a hurry and then fix them with a copy edited version later, still going to do that. But I have a reader with an excellent eye who’s going to give them a once over proof before the copy edit, which is absolutely backwards and you shouldn’t do that, but that’s how I’m doing this, this time. So that’s making me feel a little bit better. What else has been happening? I have been working a lot on that a lot, a lot. It’s taking a lot of hours, but then it will be done. And it will be off my plate. And I think I mentioned this last week. That’s great because I could procrastinate the whole Parkinson’s law where things expand to fill the time allotted if I gave myself a month and I could take a month on each book. If I gave myself four days, which is basically what I’ve been giving myself, it can be done in four days. It’s just a lot of work. So I’m doing that. 

[00:03:36] My 90 days to-done and 90-day revision classes are brilliant. They are filled with the most wonderful people doing an intensely amazing job at writing their books or finishing and revising their books. And I am so proud of them and I’m just so pleased. I don’t talk about them very much because I feel like it’s kind of this secret wonderful, loveliness that is mine, that I get to do every week work with these people. It is my honor to do so. So that has been really, really fun. Also, I’ve just been trying to read a lot and I’m getting that done. I dodged a migraine. Well done me. I took a long, I’ve taken a couple of really long walks in the Wellington Hills, in the wind and have enjoyed myself so much. I find that I really, really love the feeling of the wind pushing against my body so hard, but it feels like I’m going to fall down and me pushing back. It is so incredibly satisfying.

[00:04:10] That’s kind of all that’s going on around here, which isn’t too much in comparison to everything that has gone on. So, let’s jump into the interview. First of all, though, I do want to thank new patrons. I can’t remember if I thanked these two last week, but Dorothy John’s daughter, welcome. Thank you and Melinda Findley, hello, welcome. Thank you. And Mara Macntyre and Zoe, thank you so much, Zoe joins at the mini coach level. So don’t forget, you can ask me questions at the mini coach level. I think I have an episode about, was it with almost enough questions to make an episode four. So if you are a patron at the $5 and up level per month, don’t forget you get the essays plus you get to ask me any questions about writing that you want. Please utilize me for that because I really enjoy doing it. 

[00:04:59] Today, instead of doing the interim little break where I usually announced something, my email list or my book or whatever, I’m going to tell you about Stolen Things. I’m going to give you a little read from the blurb on the book itself because my publisher Dutton Penguin got a BookBub on it. So it’s only 2.99 right now. And that is super, super cool because it’s normally a 13.99 e-book, which just between you and me, I think it’s a lot. I don’t like to pay $13 for an e-book. I really don’t. But I don’t set the prices, we don’t get to, authors don’t get to set the prices when we are talking about traditionally published books. So I say, if you’re interested, go grab it now for 2.99.   Let me give you the blurb. It is called Stolen Things. 

[00:05:45] With one call, her daughter’s life is on the line. It’s always so funny to read these. Writers write everything, but they don’t usually write these. I did not write this. Laurie Amadi has worked as a 911 police dispatcher in her quiet Northern California town for almost two decades, but nothing in her 20 years of experience could prepare her for the worst call of her career. Her teenage daughter, Jojo, is on the other end of the line. She is drugged, disoriented, and in pain. And even though the whole police department springs into action, there’s nothing Laurie can do to help. Jojo, who has been sexually assaulted, doesn’t remember how she ended up at the home of Kevin Leeds, a pro football player, famous for his work with the citizens against police brutality movement. Though she insists he would never hurt her, and she has no idea where her best friend Harper, who was with her the earlier in the evening could be. As Jojo and Laurie began digging into Harper’s private messages on social media to look for clues to her whereabouts, they uncover a conspiracy far bigger than they ever could have imagined. With Kevin’s freedom on the line and the chances of finding Harper unharmed slipping away, plus a dead body that is actually not in this blurb and I think should be. Jojo and Laurie begin to realize that they can’t trust anyone to find Harper except themselves, not even the police department, they’ve long considered family and time is running out. 

[00:07:11] Let’s see, Iris Johansen, who is a New York Times bestselling author that I don’t know, and therefore this blurb, this is quote is very precious to me. She says, exciting storytelling and great characters make Stolen Things a powerhouse read. The writing is superb, and I can’t wait for her next book. And Crime Reads says, Herron has worked as a 911 dispatcher for many years, and her debut is infused with both the emotional truths and daily details of her life’s work, a textbook study of tension and secrets in small town, America. And Library Journal says, Herron treats us to a thriller that slowly peels back the layers of dirty secrets kept by all the people involved. An intense read, perfect for fans of Karen Slaughter or Lisa Scottellini. So, yeah, it’s, let’s go back to that word that Crime Reads used. I’ve talked about it on the show before, but because they renamed me, because my publisher renamed me R.H. Herron, which is also my name, Rachael Holly Heron. They’re allowed to call me a debut as a thriller writer. I don’t love it because I’m not a debut by any stretch of the imagination, but that is a thing that sells books and bookstores really like it. So that is what they do. Not a debut, but it was a debut for R.H. Herron. This came out last year, year and a half ago, it’s called Stolen Things and it’s $2 and 99 cents. It’ll probably be that way for at least another week, or it could remain that price for a little bit longer. So even if you hear this later, go check it out. That is great price to buy a book for, I’m telling you. And if you did grab it for that super low price, boy would I appreciate a review? 

[00:08:45] Don’t forget that reviews are the best gift you can give to an author. I don’t care what rating you give me. It is the fact that there is a review that pushes the algorithm. So that is deeply appreciated and do consider it when you’re reading any book. Leave some kind of review if you enjoyed it. I only leave four and five star reviews myself. That’s very easy for me to do. It’s never a lie because if it was a one, two or a three-star book, I would never finish reading it. I don’t have time for that. I only read books that are mostly five stars, because as soon as it turns into like a 3.5 slash 4star book, I just stopped reading it, I abandon it. And I don’t read it. That’s how I work. Not how you work. But do consider leaving reviews for all the books you read. It is so helpful. Okay. I feel like I’ve said a lot and let us move into the interview with Cecilia. She’s so awesome. I know you’re going to love her. Okay. Here we go. And happy writing, my friends. Please don’t forget that you’re a writer and you should be doing a little bit of it too. Okay, here we go. 

[00:09:45] Rachael Herron: All right. Well, I could not be more excited today to welcome to the show, my friend Cecilia Gray. Hello, Cecilia!

[00:09:53] Cecilia Gray: Hello, Rachael!

[00:09:54] Rachael Herron: I’m so happy to have you. We have known each other for forever, but let me give a little bio for you for the people who don’t know who you are yet. Cecilia Gray writes about first love, second chances, and forever friendships. She has written over twenty young-adult and romance titles. That Was Then, a pandemic midlife reboot tale, is her first contemporary mainstream novel. Cecilia used the pandemic for a midlife reboot of her own and is currently slow traveling the world with her two cats. You can read more about her work at ceciliagray.com. So congratulations on this new book, which I haven’t read yet, but I am going to, because I love your writing.

[00:10:33] Cecilia Gray: Thank you. 

[00:10:34] Rachael Herron: So I sent you the list of questions and if we get to them, that’s great. If we don’t, we don’t. But talk to me about writing about the pandemic. Because that is something that people are struggling with considering doing.

[00:10:50] Cecilia Gray: So I actually wrote about the pandemic during the pandemic in real time. What had sort of happened, I mean, you know, me, you know that I am naturally a plotter like of spreadsheets on spreadsheets on spreadsheets and spreadsheets for character traits. I have spreadsheets for the timeline. They all link up. They all change and you know, there’s lots of formulas involved, and I actually had a book all plotted out. And then when the pandemic happened, I think, I don’t know if you felt this, like a lot of people, I just felt like I couldn’t write the story that I had planned on writing. Like I just felt like, you know, I couldn’t do anything that I had planned on doing. And so I thought, okay, well I have to write something cause, you know if you’re, are you a writer if you’re not writing sure. But you need to be writing something. And so, I think like something happened, I can’t even remember the first scene I wrote, but something happened that hit the news and I thought, well, I’m just gonna write my characters, reacting to this scene. That’s what I’m going to do. 

[00:11:50] Rachael Herron: So you were already ready writing these characters?

[00:11:54] Cecilia Gray: I had the characters in mind, I had who they were and who they were supposed to become in terms of the three best friends that live in San Francisco together, and originally worked together and I was going to have a book for each one. So I thought, well, I’ll just write a scene of them, reacting to the pandemic together. And then that sort of, and then the next time something happened in the news, I was like, well, I will write another scene of them reacting to the pandemics together. And after enough time, I was like, I have enough scenes that this is a book. This is a book now. And I was like, this must be what pantsing is. 

[00:12:29] Rachael Herron: That’s what I was gonna say about. You’re literally pantsing. You were pantsing in those moments. How did it feel to do? 

[00:12:35] Cecilia Gray: Oh, it gave me a lot of anxiety. I think, I don’t think you realize how terrible pantsing is to a plotter because you don’t know that it’s, you can’t get, first of all, the pandemic itself was anxiety provoking.  And then to put the pressure of your book on top of that was just an extra layer that I wasn’t ready for, but it’s what I had to do. So I, you know, When George Floyd happened, that made it into the book. When the Capitol riots happened, that had to make it into the book. I didn’t know who was going to win when the rest of that didn’t make it in the book and everything that sort of happens in the book had to just happen because of the happened and in a way, it was good, and that it forced me to do a type of character development I’ve never done before, like an organic character development, which I think almost ends up feeling a little more real than when you force character development through these like big plot points that happen. Like then you realize like, actually a lot of character change does happen through small everyday life. And it was trying to find a way to like, capture that it was, but please never, again, 

[00:13:38] Rachael Herron: As a person who have known, who’s known you for a long time and has seen these spreadsheets, like my eyes are just like heart eyes in your direction. I’m so excited that you had this experience and know you’d never have to do it again ever, ever, ever. So this book then, did you keep the idea of writing it about one woman and then the other two still have their due? Or did they all come into this book more than you thought they would. 

[00:14:02] Cecilia Gray: They all are in the book about as much as they were going to be, but probably even a little less, because obviously the pandemic doesn’t let them interact in traditional ways that you would have three best friends interacting. So it was sort of difficult to show friendship and how it is when you can’t do all the fun friendship things that you can do in regular time. 

[00:14:25] Rachael Herron: Oh my God. I’m so excited to read this book. I’m so excited to see what you did with this time that we’re getting out of. That’s amazing. What is your writing process like? Cause you do a lot of different things and we don’t need to talk about any of those things, but you do a lot of things. Where does writing fit in your life and how do you get it done? 

[00:14:43] Cecilia Gray: It sort of fits it at the end of the day these days, to be honest. I’m a remote working now. Like many people, I was able to secure that arrangement and I’m also traveling. So I’m not in the same time zone where I currently work, but I’m committed to my time zone. And so I sort of have a different day where I wake up in the morning and I get a few hours to myself. And I spend that time, I really do, I’m trying to spend that time on myself and like eating breakfast and exercising. And trying to take care of myself in a way I really didn’t during the pandemic.

[00:15:17] Rachael Herron: None of us did. None of us did, girl. 

[00:15:20] Cecilia Gray: Oh man. So there’s that. And then I’m committed to a work day and then sort of at the end of the day, when it gets dark, that’s really when I write and it’s, it works for me because you know, obviously I’ve been thinking about my characters and what they should be doing all day. I’ve been wanting to write about them. So at the end of the day, I actually do want to write about them. Whereas sometimes I found that if I start writing in the beginning of the day, when I feel like I have to write, I’m just not, I just feel a little more like it about being at the keyboard. 

[00:15:50] Rachael Herron: You have, I would say you probably would not argue with me. I have known you to be a workaholic. The workaholic in me recognizes the workaholic in you that can do a lot of things. How much time do you spend at night writing? 

[00:16:06] Cecilia Gray: I actually only spend an hour a day writing these days. 

[00:16:10] Rachael Herron: Who is Cecilia and what have you done with my friend?

[00:16:14] Cecilia Gray: Well,

[00:16:15] Rachael Herron: That’s amazing!

[00:16:17] Cecilia Gray: Celia got, as you know, Cecilia got some cats and when the cats want to be pet, then that’s how it is. That’s how it is. But I’m telling you, I don’t know if this is true. I think writing at the end of the day after you’ve had all day to think through things, the scenes just flow faster because you’ve sort of been working them out in your head the whole time. So they, and you’ve got tidbits of dialogue from the whole day that you can kind of put in, like you don’t have to force anything. So it’s almost like switching my writing from day to night made it more efficient for me the actual time in front of the lab in front of the keyboard. 

[00:16:53] Rachael Herron: I love that with a cat on your lap. Do we want to tell our cat story? 

[00:16:58] Cecilia Gray: I mean, I’m sure your readers know that you have, I wouldn’t call it. What’s the right word for it, it’s a problem. 

[00:17:07] Rachael Herron: It’s a problem that, that animals launched themselves at my car as if it was made a bacon like that is mostly dogs, but often cats. And I have probably rescued, I don’t know, 15 over the last, I guess it’s not that many, you know, over the last years. But one day I was driving home, and right in front of my car, ran the tiniest, tiniest little black kitten. Like, I don’t know how old Crawley could have been, like six weeks tops. Five or six weeks old, just the tiniest and, and Cecilia was very, very allergic to cats, very allergic to cats. I can’t come in my house kind of thing. And I told you, and this is honest to God’s truth that I am also allergic to cats, but I got my beloved Digit when he was about that small. And because I grew up with his dander as he grew, like he was more out there, less allergenic when they’re small, and I got used to it as he got bigger, that like I could rub that cattle over my face and it wouldn’t matter. And so you came over to my house and tried petting little Mr. Crawley. 

[00:18:10] Cecilia Gray: I think I rubbed my face in him.

 [00:18:12] Rachael Herron: I think you did. And then I think he like drove around maybe for a little while or spent an hour in front of my house and nothing happened. Your eyes didn’t swell closed. And I have to say that I’m so proud. That’s like one of my greatest accomplishments as a human being. 

[00:18:27] Cecilia Gray: It was a watershed moment for me. Like I changed my life after having, after having a cat, like I changed my priorities. I changed how I spend my time. I changed the time I give myself just to sit around and do nothing. Although I think petting your cat is not doing nothing. It’s a very valuable activity. If you are doing it, please continue to do so. So, yeah, I think it definitely decrease my workaholicness and a friend of mine actually said like, oh, well now we know if you ever become an evil villain because you know, I have the potential to be an evil villain and evil mastermind. And they said, if you ever become an evil villain, we know that all we have to do is like throw a bunch of cats in front of you. And it would just derail your plans entirely. 

[00:19:09] Rachael Herron: It’s just a box of tiny kittens you’re done, you’re doomed. 

[00:19:12] Cecilia Gray: Yeah. End of the movie. 

[00:19:15] Rachael Herron: I love that the cats have influenced you up to the cellular level of your writing, you know, that you write an hour a day. Okay. So what is your biggest challenge when it comes to writing?

[00:19:27] Cecilia Gray: My biggest challenge actually so something, I don’t know if you discovered this during the pandemic, but there were some very specific viral articles that went around during the pandemic. And one of them was about the idea of internal narrative in mind’s eye. And there was this discovery that some people have an internal narrative. It’s also makes it into my book because this was such a big thing. Some people have internal narratives, and some people do not. And I do not have an internal narrative and I do not have a mind’s eye. So there are certain things that never made sense to me in life. Like people used to always say, oh, well, if you tell someone not to think of a pink elephant, the first thing they’re going to see as a pink elephant. And I didn’t really understand what that meant, because if you said to me, 

[00:20:01] Rachael Herron: I don’t, I don’t have that either. 

[00:20:03] Cecilia Gray: I don’t see a pink elephant. I see nothing. And then, 

[00:20:05] Rachael Herron: I can see if I try really hard, I can see like an apple. I can see, but nothing else. Like if I, and I probably could see a pink elephant for a second, but those people who say like, well, I just, I just watched the movie of my book in front of me and then I write it down and like, what, what, what movie, what movie?

[00:20:19] Cecilia Gray: Oh my goodness. I said, I, yeah. So I think I don’t have that and I also don’t have the narrative. And in fact, I think that that was a really cheap device. Like, you know, stories like Bridget Jones’s diary. I used to think that was such a cheap device. I didn’t think that’s how people actually experience their lives.

[00:20:34] Rachael Herron: I have a voice in my head that never stops. 

[00:20:37] Cecilia Gray: That’s amazing to me. So I think I used to have this critique all the time. People would read my book and they would say, I don’t know what your heroine is thinking because she’s not telling me how she’s thinking. And I used to think that was so weird because like, why would she tell you how she’s thinking, you know what she’s thinking? Because she’s living her life and doing things that reflect how she feels. But I think people who have narratives are used to hearing that narrative. And so, now that I know that, the, I think my biggest challenge is, is obviously I think anybody’s biggest challenge. Maybe not, is writing characters that experienced the world in a way that’s different differently from, you know, how I experienced the world. I love narratives in mind’s eye.  

[00:21:20] Rachael Herron: I wonder if you could use it for a character though, for a character who doesn’t have the internal dialogue and who doesn’t have the inner eye. That would be interesting to explore. 

[00:21:29] Cecilia Gray: I think you would have to be quite blunt, like you would have to, you know, inform the reader.  

[00:21:34] Rachael Herron: You would. It would be part of it, like, yeah. Yeah. That’s oh my gosh. I see. I love that. What is your biggest joy when it comes to writing? 

[00:21:43] Cecilia Gray: Rachael, I’m just one of those people that does not find it to be a joyful process. Like if I could stop myself, if I could like go back in time and find my younger self and just shake her and say like stick to math, you’re really good at math. Like, that’s what I would do. I don’t, I can’t stop, but it’s not like a joyful, I guess the joy is when it’s done. 

[00:22:05] Rachael Herron: You stop typing for the day. That’s a joy. That is, that is a joy. That really is. I used to love writing, but I hated every minute of it, but I loved being in the bathtub and that after I ran and that was what I did. Yes. It’s the same thing. Can you share a craft tip with us of any sort?

[00:22:24] Cecilia Gray: Oh a craft tip. Okay. So this doesn’t apply to all levels of writers, obviously, but I think if you’re a beginning writer or in the first stages of writing, you know, you’re going to write all your scenes. And then I think something that every writer should consider doing is going back to every scene and just deleting your first and last paragraph and seeing if it works any way. Because most people over again, cause most people like have that internal monologue, they start things before they need to. They give too much detail before a scene starts and they sort of like lead out a scene a little too much and give too much detail more than they need. And I think sometimes, when you drag the reader along and the reader doesn’t come to their own conclusion about things, it’s not as interactive and experience. So that’s my tip for everyone. Just, just go ahead and just delete the first and last paragraph and see if it’s still works. 

[00:23:12] Rachael Herron: And if it doesn’t work, is there a way that you could do that in maybe a word or two to fix what they’re missing? I love this idea. Yeah. I always feel like the reader experience with the author has to be that we trust them to do a lot of the work. Because readers want to work. It’s like showing up to a crossword puzzle and then having the author lean over and feeling all the squares, nobody wants that. They want to think about it. That’s a beautiful way of 

[00:23:38] Cecilia Gray: Cheaters want that. 

[00:23:39] Rachael Herron: Exactly. And that’s not fun. I love that. I’m going to try that with my next scene. Just getting rid of them entirely, those paragraphs.

[00:23:46] Cecilia Gray: Well, you’re the revision queen. You’re the, yes, I just, your revision process is if people don’t know, Rachael’s revision process is legendary. 

[00:23:58] Rachael Herron: It is cause it works and it’s fun. And my, you know, besides getting you a cat, like my other greatest moments in life are when students come to me and say, oh, I love revision now you asshole, you know? And I’m like, thank you. Thank you. My work is done here. What thing in your life right now affects your writing in a surprising way that is not cats?

[00:24:21] Cecilia Gray: Oh, how dare you? So actually, part of being a little more remote and nomadic means I’ve gotten rid of all my furniture. And so I,

[00:24:34] Rachael Herron: Me too, girl!

[00:24:35] Cecilia Gray: Yes, I don’t own any chairs. I own a little low table that I can eat off of and right off of. And there’s something about sitting at this table and having to hold my posture and having to hold myself as certain, a certain way. It just creates a different energy. And it actually reminds me about another friend of mine who’s an author, Veronica Wolf, you know, her, she got a treadmill desk and she said that she noticed the time and tempo of her action. She writes. You know, she was running these kick button, vampire novels. And she said that she noticed that the time and tempo of her action scenes really kicked it up when she wrote while she was walking. And I think there’s something about writing in a way where you hold yourself a little more rigid or that you’re like exercising yourself a little more. It just creates like a different tempo to your work. And I think people should another writing tip, like I think people should try that. Try writing standing and try writing sitting and try writing laying down, try writing, you know, handwriting. You just never know how something’s going to be able to impact your voice. So

[00:25:41] Rachael Herron: I want to go a little bit more detailed on the ergo of this. So I’m presuming you’re like sitting cross legged on the floor kind of thing. 

[00:25:47] Cecilia Gray: Yes. 

[00:25:48] Rachael Herron: And then is your computer on the table or do you have it raised so that you’re not bending your neck down so that you look at it? How does it work?

[00:25:55] Cecilia Gray: So my computer is on the table and I have, it’s perfect so that my, you know, elbow is ergonomically bent, but then I actually don’t look at my screen then, because that does mean that I’m bending my neck down too much. 

[00:26:12] Rachael Herron: Right. 

[00:26:13] Cecilia Gray: And so in a way, you know, I’ll glance down from time to time, but in a way, then the writing becomes a little less self-conscious because you’re not reading what you’ve written as you write it. You’re just writing it. 

[00:26:24] Rachael Herron: What about for revision though? When you’re in revision, you have to be looking at it. Do you raise it? I like details.  

[00:26:32] Cecilia Gray: So in revision, it’s actually a little different for me. I have a different revision process where I’ll take the whole document and transfer it over to like a Kindle version that I read on my, on my phone. And I’ll make myself handwritten notes as I read it. So, and I’ll actually read it out loud sometimes because I’m a bit of a fast writer. And as a result, sometimes I can get lazy about dropping words and that the things that I wouldn’t notice, like my eye will just fill it in naturally. If I don’t read it out loud, I won’t realize I’m missing it or missing a detail or I won’t realize till later, like oh, these two have just been sitting in the vacuum of space. I should put them in a room  

[00:27:13] Rachael Herron: The bane of my existence, yeah 

[00:27:15] Cecilia Gray: Yeah. It’s what happens when you don’t have the mind’s eye, right? 

[00:27:17] Rachael Herron: It is really true. That is why I’ve always struggled so much with setting. I’m like, I realized that I can’t see it. I don’t guess I have to look at pictures online and then describe what I see in a picture in order to get setting it.

[00:27:29] Cecilia Gray: I like that. I’m going to take that one from you. I’m just going to start putting pictures up, but I write it out. And then when I go to edit, I sort of just do it in like short spreads. Like they’ll usually only edit one scene at a time, so then I am looking at them. 

[00:27:42] Rachael Herron: Okay. But it’s not long enough to break your neck. Alright. Oh, this is fascinating. Okay. What is the best book that you’ve read recently?

[00:27:50] Cecilia Gray: Oh, you know, so to be honest, I’ve been, I’m sure like many people I’ve been reading a lot of books that were suggested from like anti-racist. So, me and white supremacy and how to be an anti-racist so I had kind of gotten through a lot of those, the books that I’ve read most recently, that’s perhaps not nonfiction in that way is Killers of the Flower Moon. I’m actually still in the middle of it. No spoilers, anybody who’s already finished it. And it’s based on the real story of, the, like multiple murders of the Osage nation during the time when they were very wealthy due to oil money, because they had oil rights. And the creation of what eventually becomes the federal bureau of investigation when they come down to investigate these murderers. And they’re actually making a movie, I think Martin Scorsese is filming a movie right now, and I feel very desperate to like finish the book before the movie comes out. So I’m not influenced by anything. I think Leonardo DiCaprio’s starring in it. But it’s really interesting because it almost, and I don’t know if anyone else went through a pandemic phase of watching real crime drama in a very guilty way. 

[00:29:04] Rachael Herron: Yeah, just all of it. I didn’t care if it was good, bad. I watched it.

[00:29:06] Cecilia Gray: Yes, same. So this is one of the book extension of that because they talk about what investigative techniques used to be like, what used to pass for a jury, what used to pass for like investigating bodies, like way back in the 1800s. And it’s, it’s fascinating.

[00:29:21] Rachael Herron: And what is it called?

[00:29:22] Cecilia Gray: Killers of the Flower Moon. 

[00:29:23] Rachael Herron: Thank you. Thank you. Putting that on my list of things to read while in quarantine in New Zealand. Thank you very much. All right. So will you tell us a little bit about That Was Then?

[00:29:38] Cecilia Gray: Sure. That Was Then is part of a series of three books, but this is the only one that’s out about three friends who, as a result of the pandemic, undergo huge shifts in their life sort of like these, I wouldn’t say midlife crisis, but midlife reboot that they had a certain type of life and now they have another type of life. And that was then specifically concerns a marriage. And I think a lot of marriages were tested by the pandemic and some came out stronger and some were revealed to be not ideal, or at least not ideal for a pandemic, you know, if not other circumstances. And so it’s about a woman who had a life that she thought was the life she wanted. And then the pandemic, and sort of the test to her marriage shows her that the compromises she hadn’t made in her life had sort of taken over and put her in this position, where she sort of wasn’t ready to like confront the pandemic or anything else about her life. So it’s just about sort of like deciding what kind of life you have versus what you want it to be. And just before the show, you and I were talking about this quote, which I love.

[00:30:45] Rachael Herron: Yes, I was hoping you would go there.

[00:30:46] Cecilia Gray: This quote by Anne Quinland, who’s an amazing author and it’s, the life you have led, doesn’t need to be the only life you have. And I think this is so inspiring for anyone at any time that if you’re not happy, the life that you’ve led so far, doesn’t need to be the life that you have. It doesn’t need to be your life tomorrow or the life thereafter. And I think it’s really easy for people to get stuck in ruts. And I think the pandemic really helped people realize like, oh, I can pivot my life and I can pivot it very quickly. And if you can pivot it quickly for a pandemic, then you can pivot it for anything, quite frankly. Like, and I mean that as a country, like I saw, I saw ways that companies made changes that they said would take years, that they managed to do those changes in months. And that if you really put the energy on it, you can change anything as small as like your life to the government program, to how a country deals with something, and that’s sort of sorry. That’s like a very hoity toity. What is the book about? 

[00:31:40] Rachael Herron: I absolutely love it because like you have had these kind of seismic shifts in your life and I’m moving into a seismic shift and there’s a quote I keep on my desk right here from Anias Nin, who said life shrinks or expands in proportion to one’s own, to one’s courage. And, but I’m going to add the Anna Quinlin quote, the life you have led doesn’t need to be the only life you have. Isn’t that incredible? That and that. Oh, I can’t wait to read your book. That is delicious. Where can we find you online?  

[00:32:12] Cecilia Gray: I am on Facebook. You can friend me there. I’m being very social media, slow for writing. I think, you know, I think the pandemic tested everyone’s social media tolerance, so. 

[00:32:26] Rachael Herron: It broke mine completely. Yeah. Except for Tiktok, I’m all about Tiktok.

[00:32:29] Cecilia Gray: Oh, okay. Well, we’ll see. We’ll see. I’m right. I don’t have Facebook. I also obviously made the decision to focus more on my cats and on writing than on social media, but who knows? I might open up, but for now, I’m on my website and on Facebook. 

[00:32:41] Rachael Herron: And your website is ceciliagray.com. Gray, A-Y 

[00:32:44] Cecilia Gray: Yes.

[00:32:45] Rachael Herron: Cecilia, it has been such a treat talking to you and seeing your beautiful face. And, thank you. Say hello to Crowley and kiss boo and all of that. Okay, happy writing. 

[00:32:58] Cecilia Gray: Thanks. Bye. 

Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.