Ep. 258: Kristan Higgins on How to Write Forward Without Looking Back

New York Times bestselling author Kristan Higgins has sold 4.5 million books worldwide and is published in more than two dozen languages around the world. Her two most recent novels were each selected as People magazine’s “Pick of the Week.” Kristan is also a cohost of the Crappy Friends podcast, which discusses the often complex dynamics of female friendships, with her friend and fellow writer, Joss Dey. Higgins lives in Connecticut with her family. Pack Up the Moon is her most recent novel. 

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Rachael Herron: Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:16] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode #258 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. So pleased that you are here with me today, as we are talking to the always fabulous Kristan Higgins. She’s been on the show before; she’ll probably be on it again someday. We talk about, not looking back as you go forward in your work. I know you’re going to enjoy that interview. So stay tuned for that. What is going on around here? Well, we’re still at the beach house. We have one more full day. We have tomorrow as our full day here, unless we get locked down again, suddenly, God forbid, cause I’m ready to go. We are going to on Sunday, pick up and move and drive through Auckland. So let me break it down. All of New Zealand now, a little bit more than three weeks after the hard crunch lockdown at level four, that was lockdown as you get, you don’t leave the house except for a short walk and you can’t do anything else. You’re, you don’t go anywhere. You don’t see anybody. We were at level four, then we went to level three. Now we’re at level two. All of New Zealand is at level two, except for Auckland, which is still at level four. So we had one community case of COVID. It was a Delta variant. They locked down over that, within two weeks, there were 700 cases. They were all genome sequence. They were all tracked. They’re all being cared for. It’s up to about 800 now, but yesterday we only had 20 reported inside Auckland. 

[00:01:50] The only place that the coronavirus is right now is inside Auckland. And let me tell you, when you shut the city down and you don’t let anyone in or out. It can’t get out. It doesn’t get out, which is why the rest of us are at level two. And what level two is, is basically everything’s back to normal. It’s kind of like the states without the fear, because right now everybody’s back at work back at school, but you have to wear a mask when you’re indoors, except when you’re in a gym or eating in a restaurant. But the difference between being here and in the states is that, you know that no one around you has Coronavirus because they’re tracking the wastewater in these areas. They know from wastewater that right now, the only people with COVID-19 are in Auckland. 

[00:02:37] The New York times did an article about a week ago saying, is New Zealand dreaming? Is this an impossible goal to eradicate the Delta virus? It may be, it may be. But so far it’s working, it’s really working and it’s so exciting. So, we are allowed to leave Northland now and drive through Auckland if we don’t stop and you have to have a reason and you have to have an address that you’re going to. There is disagreement as to when you look at the newspapers, are you allowed to drive through Auckland for other than business purpose? We can’t say that our purpose is business to drive through Auckland but I asked the government, if we could do it. I asked on Twitter, I asked the New Zealand government who is in charge of the COVID response. I said, we would like to move from Airbnb to Airbnb and drive through Auckland without stopping. And they said, yes, you can. You’re allowed to. 

[00:03:36] So I screenshotted that in case. So there are, there’s police at the borders of Auckland. So I can show them that, but we were ready to move or going to Mount Montgomery, which is just outside of Tauranga or maybe as part of Tauranga, I’m not sure. And it’s a small surfing town and it looks beautiful and we are, we’re really ready to be in a place where we can walk somewhere and buy something because the, where we are right now, it’s about a 15-minute drive from town, which is fantastic. It’s the most beautiful 15-minute drive you’ve ever taken, but we’re looking forward to being able to walk and get a coffee and get groceries and, do all that stuff that we came here to do. When we leave on Sunday, we will have been in this house for a month. Which I cannot believe. But what that means is that Russell, we’re actually at south of Russell, we’re in but this area now feels like home. Like we put down roots here. It feels like this glorious beach house is mine. 

[00:04:40] And that’s going to be difficult because in Mount Montgomery, we were just renting an apartment. You know, it’s going to have normal windows that look out on normal window things like other houses and cars instead of the variable oyster catcher and the white faced Herron and the pied cormorants otherwise known as the pied shags. Which is definitely my next band name. I’m going to really, really miss this place. I feel like it’s gotten deep into my soul like some places do. I feel like I’m going to keep dreaming about this house and the walks, the long walks that I take out on the deserted road, in the high wind rain whipping around, like, I’m going to dream about this place forever. I don’t think we’ll ever be able to afford to come back and rent it. I found out that I just looked at Airbnb, cause we’re renting an under the table from this guy. It’s not under the table. He gets to run it to whoever he wants to at a very, very reduced rate. Like I’ve mentioned, although it’s still a little pricey for us and he rented for $500 a night in winter! It’s $1,500 a night in summer, so I doubt we’ll ever come back, but I bet we’ll drive down the road and walk down the beach and look up at our house. 

[00:05:55] I’m very excited that the fancy restaurant in town just opened and you can order online or by phone, which I did. And you order a day in advance and tomorrow night they are delivering like a five course meal to us, the fancy, fancy restaurant, like, you know, truffle glaze for genie muscles drawn from the sea kind of thing and delivery means are going to go to the end of the road and text us and we’ll walk out along the beach to go pick up our dinner and that’s delivery because we don’t have an address here. And it’s been wonderful and I’ve done so much writing. And actually today I’m just finishing, writing up my next Patreon essay. So if you are interested in Patreon and reading the essay about really what lockdown is like and what it feels like to be doing this as an American and as a New Zealand citizen. The differences that we have felt. I mean, they’re obvious but I really enjoyed kind of comparing and contrasting what we thought we were coming here to do, which was to be unstuck. 

[00:07:04] And we have been stuck in a couple of different places in the MIQ Hotel and in this house and how kind of wonderful all of that feels. And what does that mean moving forward? I think I mentioned last time, that we might have a line on a house in Wellington, which we might be able to rent and it’s got an amazing view. It would make up for losing this view. And my heart is just yearning toward that. So apparently no matter how footloose and fancy free, I want to be moving towns every week, I would like to not do that in a few months, maybe two to four or five months, I would like to rent a house and just settle down for a while and make some friends that is something I’m missing is just the chit chat that you have with your friends. And I would like to have that with a barista. Who knows who I am and the, you know, the guy at the grocery store and meet some writers. I really want to be in a town and meet some writers and hang out with them. 

[00:08:97] Actually I’m going to reach out to one of the spa girls, if you listened to their podcast, it’s awesome. And she lives in Tauranga. So I’m going to reach out to her and maybe have a coffee. If she lets me, have a tea, so that’ll be nice. I think I’ve catch you up on everything else. That’s going on around here. I did start my classes on Tuesday and they’re going to be amazing. The people in them are just as always sublime and I’m doing a couple of new things with the classes going a little bit deeper into how to get a book done in 90 days, as I am writing the 90 day to done book, I’ve been thinking of new things. So they’re kind of my guinea pigs, in the best way they’re getting kind of the best of what I know. And that is really pretty stupendous and amazing that I was able to do that from a beach house at the far north of New Zealand where I am number 36 of the top 100 E. birders on the app. I’ve got to brag on that. I have identified 22 species of birds, me and my binoculars, so that’s not what I was expecting to do for our first month in the wilds of New Zealand, but it has been wonderful. 

[00:09:23] So with that update, let us, oh, well let me, actually thank a couple of new patrons, if you don’t mind, they were open and then they closed because the internet does kind of go up and down here, but here it is. Juliet Kelly. Thank you, Juliet and Amber Reed. Thank you. Thank you so much new patrons, new and current existing patrons and all of the patrons of the past. Thank you so much. Because of you, I get to spend the time writing these essays that are the essays of my heart, that I love, love, love to do, so thank you very, very much. All right. My friends, it doesn’t matter whether you wrote yesterday and it doesn’t matter whether you have written yet today. Can you find 10 or 15 minutes today to write some really terrible words. Words that let you down., and words that will not let you down in the future when you go back to them and you make them a little shiny, a little brighter. I know that you can do that. Please find me where I am online and tell me how you are doing with this request that you write, because your story is important. Only you can tell it and I want to read it. So, keep me posted my friends and enjoy this interview with Kristan Higgins. I know you will.

[00:10:39] Do you wonder why you’re not getting your creative work done? Do you make a plan to write and then fail to follow through again? Well, my sweet friend, maybe you’d get a lot out of my Patreon. Each month, I write an essay on living your creative life as a creative person, which is way different than living as a person who binges Netflix 20 hours a week and I have lived both of those ways, so I know. You can get each essay and access to the whole back catalog of them for just a dollar a month, which is an amount that really truly helps support me at this here, writing desk. If you pledge at the $3 level, you’ll get motivating texts from me that you can respond to, and if you pledge at the $5 a month level, you get to ask me questions about your creative life that I’ll answer in the mini episodes. So basically, I’m your mini coach. Go to patreon.com/Rachael R-A-C-H-A-E-L, to get these perks and more. And thank you so much!

[00:11:37] Rachael Herron: I could not be more pleased today to welcome to the show, Kristan Higgins. Hello, Kristan! 

[00:11:43] Kristan Higgins: Hi Rachael! So good to see you again. 

[00:11:45] Rachael Herron: It’s a thrill to talk to you. I don’t think I’ve seen you in a while!

[00:11:49] Kristan Higgins: Years

[00:11:49] Rachael Herron: Well, we haven’t got a conference. I had you talk to one of my classes one time, and that was awesome, but I’m so glad to welcome you to the show. Let me give a little introduction for those who may not know you. New York Times bestselling author, Kristan Higgins has sold 4.5 million books worldwide and is published in more than two dozen languages around the world. Her two most recent novels were each selected as People magazine’s “Pick of the Week.” Kristan is also a co-host of the Crappy Friends podcast which discusses the often complex dynamics of female friendships, with our friend and fellow writer, Joss Dey. Kristan lives in Connecticut with her family and Pack up the Moon is her most recent novel. So that’s, you’ve got a lot going on. Plus, you’ve got the daughter getting married. We were just talking about off air. Oh, my goodness! Well, congratulations on a new book. I am in the middle of it and loving it, and it is such a tear jerker.

[00:12:46] Kristan Higgins: Yeah, i know

[00:11:48] Rachael Herron: It’s gotta be your tear jerkiest. Right?

[00:12:50] Kristan Higgins: It definitely is, and I say that with pride, you know, I love books that affect me so much that I cry. And I think there’s something really cathartic and healing, and it’s like a gift to be able to cry over a fake person, a fictional person, you know, because sometimes it’s harder to cry in real life, over real people because you have so much going on and you have to take care of things and details. And other people’s grief. And so when you’re reading a book and it’s sad and you have a good blubber, you know, there’s something great about that. And I mean, I hope you’re finding too that it’s not just a sad book, you know? It’s  

[00:13:39] Rachael Herron: Oh no, not at all. It’s a tear jerker but it’s moving.

[00:13:43] Kristan Higgins: Yeah. The premises is clear, you know, a young woman with a terminal illness writes 12 letters to her husband to kind of walk him through that first year of widowhood for him because she knows, you know, that she’s the best thing that ever happened to him. And that he’s not going to have an easy time of it. And that she’s his person. So she’s going to take care of him even after she’s gone, so I think it’s very romantic in that sense. And, you know, it’s a love story. It’s a tragic love story, but without being a plot spoil, it does have a happy ending.

[00:14:25] Rachael Herron: I’m feeling that I’m feeling that’s going to happen. I’m very confident in that. But also like it’s just, I think it’s a really good time for this book to come out. I think people have had a lot of feelings and a lot of us included, you know, I struggle with feeling feelings, and this is a way to do that. 

[00:14:50] Kristan Higgins: We all have had such a, the whole world has had such a rough 18 months plus, and we’ve all gone through this trauma and uncertainty. And I think, you know, for me, certainly, and I think for most people we’ve never really felt the possibility of our immortality, more realistically than we have in this past pandemic, you know, where I’m, you know, I was just doing another interview earlier and I said, you know, I’m Hungarian and we think about death all the time. We it’s our hobby, it’s our, you know, the song of my people is to plan a funeral, you know, and yet every time in the past year or so, year and a half, going to the supermarket might be the last thing that, you know, that keeps you out of the house, you know, that puts you into the hospital or, you know, and I would think that I would go out and say like, is this the day I get COVID I’ve got two masks and my hand sanitizer, and I’m doing all the distancing and, you know, being as careful as can be, but, so were a lot of people who caught it. So I do think that like, as a nation and as a, you know, as a world, we’ve all been in mourning, we’ve all been looking at the possibility of the death of our loved ones. You know, my daughter’s a nurse, she just became,

[00:16:18] Rachael Herron: Oh my gosh. That’s amazing. And good for you for raising a woman like that

[00:16:24] Kristan Higgins: Yeah. I mean, she’s incredible. She’s the woman I most admire in the world is my daughter. You know, she would have to come home and like stripped down on the porch and put her clothes in a bag or in the washing machine immediately at two o’clock in the morning, you know? And my husband’s a firefighter. My future son-in-law is a firefighter. My son was a college student. So like we were, I was probably the safest one because I’m, you know, alone in my pajamas, writing books and so it’s been a year. It’s been a year. And I think that it was funny when I was writing the book before the pandemic,

[00:17:05] Rachael Herron: Yeah because you obviously started it before.

[00:17:09] Kristan Higgins: Right. And then we got into the pandemic and I thought, oh dear, what have I done? You know, I’ve written a tragic love story and yet, the more, I sat with it in that time. I thought this is maybe the book everybody needs to read this year. 

[00:17:27] Rachael Herron: Yeah. I love that. So how, so this is a show for writers about kind of the process of writing. Let’s talk about your process. How do you get the work done? I’m know there for a while you had an office, right? I think you had an office a lot- 

[00:17:09] Kristan Higgins: I’m in the office right now. 

[00:17:27] Rachael Herron: No but didn’t you have an office outside the house? 

[00:17:46] Kristan Higgins: Yep. That’s where I’m over my neighbor’s garage right now. 

[00:17:49] Rachael Herron: Oh! how lo- your husband pops something up to you? So I thought, perhaps 

[00:17:52] Kristan Higgins: Yes. See there’s my office. My cat is here somewhere, there’s my dog

[00:17:56] Rachael Herron: Oh! It’s beautiful! So is this, oh, hi dog! My dog’s somewhere around here 

[00:18:01] Kristan Higgins: Yes, I saw him on the couch a minute ago. 

[00:18:03] Rachael Herron: Oh yes. Oh, there she is. Yeah. That’s exactly where she is. So is that where you get the majority of your writing done? You’ve always kind of done that. So perhaps you didn’t have as hard a time as the rest of us did with losing our coffee shops.

[00:18:15] Kristan Higgins: I can never write in public. That’s, I’m too interested in people. I get a lot of my ideas in public, you know, but I’m a world-class eavesdropper. I’m, you know, I live in my hometown, which is very small. So, you know, I know everybody, if I go to the library, it’s just, you know, old home week. we don’t have a coffee shop in my town. We used to, but unfortunately they were forced to move, so I have always tried to work alone. It, you know, I started writing when my kids were little and so I’d write when they were at school. And then my husband made me this little office in, at the corner of our basement, it was like a cell, you know, cause it was cement walls, and it was like, you know, eight by eight, but it was a room with a door, which is very helpful, you know, whether it’s a big closet or a cell. Now I have this lovely office. So I do a lot of writing here. I like to be away from my family. You know, at least for a few hours now, my kids are grown, so it’s not such a necessity, but I also, we have a family house on Cape Cod and that’s where I wrote most of this book because I was stuck there in the pandemic. My husband and daughter said, don’t come home. We never know what we’re bringing home, stay up there. And so I wasn’t, it was 

[00:19:44] Rachael Herron: That must’ve been really difficult. 

[00:19:46] Kristan Higgins: It was. It was very lonely. And again very, it really made the idea of loneliness. Like loneliness is something that I’ve always chosen it solitude, rather than, I love to be alone. And then when you don’t choose it, when you know, the governor is telling you not to leave the state and is saying don’t come home. It’s different. So I do, I write by myself, you know, I’ve never been on a writer’s weekend where we actually sit down and write.  I’ve heard about those. They sound great, but for me, I need to be alone. Not counting animals. 

[00:20:36] Rachael Herron: Yeah. What is your biggest challenge when it comes to writing?

[00:20:39] Kristan Higgins: I have such a hard time finishing a first draft. To me, if I didn’t have to write a first draft, I could probably write three books a year, you know? I love the idea part. I like to flesh out the outline. I really like to have an idea of where the story’s going, character development, research, and I love revising, because that is when my book becomes a book and not just a pile of pages with a lot of red marks through it, you know. So writing the first draft is very difficult for me and I envy the people who say, oh, I write really clean first drafts. And it only takes me six weeks, you know, and I think who are you? How dare you 

[00:21:25] Rachael Herron: They’re less agony for me than they used to be. But only because I’ve stopped telling everyone how much I hate first drafts, because I decided I needed to stop doing that. But I’m absolutely with you. What do you think specifically? And I know what I dread about it. First draft, what do you dread about a first draft? 

[00:21:43] Kristan Higgins: I think. You know, like you, I’ve written a number of books. I realized this is just part of the process for me, misery self-hatred, doubt. It’s what makes me a better writer. And you know, but it does, when I think like this is garbage and I hate all your characters, Kristan, and you know, it makes me look more critically and more objectively at the book. So for me, the hardest part of the first draft is letting it be imperfect, letting the characters be cardboard or shallow or, you know, useless, pointless, and I can fix it later. And I always do. I have to remind myself like, I’ve always been here. Always. Every book has been not as good as the last one. And, you know, maybe I shouldn’t be a writer, you know, this is my 21st books. So I’m starting to get over that, 

[00:22:44] Rachael Herron: I love that. What is your biggest joy when it comes to writing? 

[00:22:47] Kristan Higgins: I really do love that sort of that revision process where you can kind of see the book taking on life and really hitting people hard. I love when I, myself am crying during a scene, I think like, yeah, you’re bringing it Higgins. You’re doing it you know, or and convert also to laughing, you know, if I can make myself laugh, then I think that I’m on the right track. So it’s kind of like, you know, we’re all Dr. Frankenstein stitching together the body parts, and then hoping for the electricity to bring your monster to life, you know, 

[00:23:26] Rachael Herron: What a great analogy. I love that.

[00:23:33] Kristan Higgins: So, yeah. That’s a, that’s kind of my writing process. I wish it was faster. I wish it was easier, but it’s not, and it still works. 

[00:23:42] Rachael Herron: And it works. That’s the thing, speaking of working, can you share a craft tip of any sort with us? 

[00:23:50] Kristan Higgins: Yeah, sure. When you’re writing a first draft, start the next scene as a new document to resist the temptation to go back 10 or a hundred pages and fucks with that. You know, just, you can see again, like you’re working on Frankenstein’s leg today and his arms and shoulders are going to be left alone, right. So, that has been really helpful for me to kind of keep me on task and not wandering off into the weeds, fixing a comma here, or are there just like, get the pages done, fix them later.

[00:24:27] Rachael Herron: Have you ever tried dabbling with the Alpha Smart and any of its forms and Alpha Smart Neo II is the one I got recently, probably about a year ago. It has changed everything about my first drafting. 

[00:24:39] Kristan Higgins: Tell me more 

[00:24:40] Rachael Herron: It’s so it’s that machine, it doesn’t do anything. It doesn’t connect to the internet. It looks like a large calculator with a keyboard. 

[00:24:47] Kristan Higgins: It’s like a typewriter? 

[00:24:50] Rachael Herron: Yeah and they don’t make them anymore. You buy them on eBay, but you could only see four lines at a time. And it’s like the weird old co like dot matrix kind of text. And then when you stop writing, you just use the one chord it has you plug it into your computer and you hit send and it starts typing. It’s just a digital recorder of typing. So then you can’t even, you have to like leave your computer while it types all the words you just typed, but you can’t scroll back more than four lines. 

[00:25:16] Kristan Higgins: That’s kind of the same idea is stay on target, stay, stay 

[00:25:21] Rachael Herron: Don’t let yourself fuzz. No flexing people. Oh, but I love, I love a good fuzz. It’s so hard. What thing in your life affects your writing in a surprising way?

[00:25:33] Kristan Higgins: In a surprising way? That’s a really interesting question, Rachael. Okay. Here’s an answer. The weather.

[00:25:54] Rachael Herron: Oh, tell me more about that.

[00:25:55] Kristan Higgins: I love to write in the winter and, I have a much harder time in the nice weather. I think it’s because, you know, I’m a mother and so my year has always been defined by the school year. Right. And so, you know, in the fall, it’s like things really start. I often start books in the fall, right through the winter and in the spring wrap up. For the past 10 years, my books have come out in June. And, so it’s like this very natural progression literally from nature, you know? And you know, it’s easier to write when you’re warm and cozy rather than when you’re like, this is an attic apartment and, you know, it gets to be 95 degrees in here in the summer, you know, 

[00:26:48] Rachael Herron: When I get in the winter, the rain sounds amazing in there. Does it?

[00:26:52] Kristan Higgins: It does it’s so I’ve love rainy day up here. And so I say this, like having half of my first draft done, so I’m going to have to just suck it up buttercup and finish it, you know, after my daughter’s wedding, but, yeah. I love writing when it’s cold and gray. I say to my husband, I could be so happy in Seattle. You know, 

[00:27:18] Rachael Herron: I say that too! My wife does not believe me. She’s like, we’re not going there, but I think I would be.

[00:27:22] Kristan Higgins: Yeah. I just think it would be so, so cozy and comforting. And I think also that I’m an indoor person by nature. Although I do love to garden and take walks and stuff, but you know, like I can get enough nature just by sitting on the porch with my potted plants. That’s good enough.

[00:27:44] Rachael Herron: A nice little dog walk, that’s you know on sidewalks. I don’t need a trail. I don’t need trees. I-

[00:27:52] Kristan Higgins: You know, live in a rural area and you don’t, we have one sidewalk on one street in my town. And so all I have are trees and hills and you know, mud and stuff like that. So yeah, the 

[00:28:05] Rachael Herron: Oh yeah, on the porch sounds like a great idea. All right. So what is the best book that you’ve read recently and why did you love it?

[00:28:13] Kristan Higgins: I’ve read? Oh, I just, well, this is an unfair book to talk about among strangers, but Kristin Hannah, The Four Winds

[00:28:22] Rachael Herron: I haven’t heard that one. 

[00:28:24] Kristan Higgins: She’s so great. Just carve yourself out sometime. It’s I said it’s one of the best books I’ve ever read. It is absolutely grueling. It is a story of hardship and desperation. And just when you think it can’t get worse, it gets much worse. 

[00:28:43] Rachael Herron: Yes! I’m leaning in, I want this

[00:28:45] Kristan Higgins: Yeah, right. And it’s the story of a woman who is forced into a marriage, and she has to leave her snooty, wealthy family, where she’s never really belonged and become to go live on a farm in the dust bowl. And at first it’s great, cause it’s not the dust bowl, you know, it still rains and they have wheat and gardens and she’s very loved by her in-law’s kind of unexpectedly. If not by her husband and then the drought comes and, you know, the drought, it to me, I’ve always known about the dust bowl and, you know, read of mice and men. And, but that’s it, you know, 

[00:29:29] Rachael Herron: That’s all I’ve got too

[00:29:30] Kristan Higgins: an American student, we don’t know a lot about American history and so to read about how dry it was, how the land changed, how desperate and poor people were you know, people who were like upper middle class one day, and then the next year they’re like in bread lines and trying to feed a family of six. So it was about this woman who is unaware of her own strength, who is so terrified that something bad will happen to her kids. And it keeps having the hits keep coming, you know? And, Kristin is obviously a lover of history, you know, she wrote The Nightingale and which is, you know, one of my top three books of all 

[00:30:18] Rachael Herron: I love that one

[00:30:19] Kristan Higgins: right. But this I’m so glad I read it. I’m so exhausted after having read it. I like broken and rebuilt stronger. So it was incredibly rewarding, beautifully written. I read it then I listened to it because

[00:30:44] Rachael Herron: Oh wow!

[00:30:45] Kristan Higgins: is a rock star, you know? I mean, that’s the thing about audio books, right. You know, I love to read a paper book, you know, hard copy paper book. I’m not an e-reader, I think because I work on the computer all day and so listening to books is new to me because I don’t have a commute but in the pandemic, when I was by myself, I had my phone and I had my audible account and that’s who kept me company those months when I was by myself, you know, and I started to, you know, that’s, I would cook and eat dinner while listening to my book or fold laundry while listening to my book. So I’ve developed a new appreciation for audio book narrators because they can really make or break a story.

[00:31:35] Rachael Herron: Yes. Oh, you and I both share Exe. She does my books. Right. I think she’s done five or six of mine and she has her own phantom shoot, cause she’s so, she’s so good.

[00:31:46] Kristan Higgins: A lot of people have found me because they read the listen to anything Exe narrates. Her name is Exe, sans E-X-E is how she spells her name. And, yeah now like we’re friends.

[00:32:02] Rachael Herron: I think she, I think she’s one of those people has to be friends with everybody. Can you imagine her not?

[00:32:06] Kristan Higgins: I know

[00:32:07] Rachael Herron: She’s so lovely

[00:32:08] Kristan Higgins: We did an event at the strand bookstore in New York, two books ago. For life and other inconveniences and we had a panel and we were having a lot of fun. And then she did a reading from the book and we were all crying. So we were all so moved and just like, you know, I said to my friend, like, I can’t believe I wrote that. You know, it sounded so good from her lips, you know, she made it so, so rich and incredible and, you know, she’s such a talent.

[00:32:43] Rachael Herron: I’m going to make sure I send this recording to her to like chilling hello, Exe. But you just blew my mind with an idea, I listened to nonfiction because my brain can handle that but when I’m reading fiction, I have a hard time following the story. If I miss a few sentences, it bothers me, but I could read the book with my eyes and process all the information visually, which is what I need to do, and then listen to it and enjoy the experience because I’ve already, I already understand the book. 

[00:33:12] Kristan Higgins: Right and yeah, so it’s I, one of my hobbies is restoring furniture and I say hobby lightly because, you know, maybe I spend an hour a month doing this, you know, but it’s really nice to be in our basement and sanding a piece of furniture and listening to a story especially because, you know, I am alone a lot with my firefighter husband, works a 24 hour shift and then some, and so I just love it. It’s like my new crush in life is audio books. And I feel guilty saying that because I appreciate, I’ve always appreciated audio books and like you, I listened to a lot of nonfiction, but I just listened to the midnight library and narrate it.

[00:34:02] Rachael Herron: I read that one with my eyeballs, but I- wasn’t great, in an audio. 

[00:34:07] Kristan Higgins: It was fantastic. And I thought, you know, an actress, I’m not sure, like stay in your lane, Carrie now she’s fantastic. I mean, she’s such a wonderful actress. I love her so much as an actress actor, but as an audio book narrator, not every actor can, whine over you know, sometimes they care about their performance and not about the story. And Carrie did a fantastic job. It was a beautiful narration 

[00:34:33] Rachael Herron: Maybe I’ll listen to that one next. I have so many audible credits and I’ve read the book I had Matt on the show and he was just as wonderful. He’s the best!

[00:34:44] Kristan Higgins: I’m so glad to hear it because I loved that 

[00:34:46] Rachael Herron: another writer recently told me that she said, thank God he’s nice because that would just break my heart if he wasn’t. All right. Well, tell us where we can find you and Pack up the Moon which everyone should run out and get. It will be out by the time this show is up. 

[00:35:03] Kristan Higgins: Yes, you can get it anywhere. I have all the links on my website, KristanHiggins.com. And if you did, pre-order it, or if you buy it the first week, I donate my share to St. Jude Children’s Hospital 

[00:35:19] Rachael Herron: Oh how great!

[00:35:20] Kristan Higgins: it’s for about 10 books, because the writing has been really good to me. Readers have given me this career that I never envisioned and I’ve been really lucky as well. And so I have this amazing career and I kind of, because I mentioned the Hungarian thing, to assuage my Catholic guilt, I donate money to a lot of causes, but especially to St. Jude’s, 

[00:35:51] Rachael Herron: I think that’s fabulous. Oh, well, thank you, Kristin. Thanks for being on the show. Thanks for being you. It’s lovely to see you and hopefully someday we’ll run into each other and in the conference world if ever I feel like going to another one in my life.

[00:36:06] Kristan Higgins: or I’ll just come visit you 

[00:36:08] Rachael Herron: Please. New Zealand is a lovely country. Thanks, Kristin. Have a wonderful night. 

[00:36:17] Kristan Higgins: You too. 

Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.