Ep. 245: Karen White on How to Leave Yourself Clues In Your Writing

Karen White is the New York Times bestselling author of more than twenty-five novels, including the Tradd Street series, Dreams of Falling, The Night the Lights Went Out, Flight Patterns, The Sound of Glass, A Long Time Gone, and The Time Between. She is the coauthor of multiple bookswith New York Times bestselling authors Beatriz Williams and Lauren Willig. She grew up in London but now lives with her husband and two dogs near Atlanta, Georgia. The Last Night in London is her most recent release. 

How Do You Write Podcast: Explore the processes of working writers with bestselling author Rachael Herron. Want tips on how to write the book you long to finish? Here you’ll gain insight from other writers on how to get in the chair, tricks to stay in it, and inspiration to get your own words flowing. 

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Transcript:

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:16] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode #245 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron, thrilled that you are here with me today. Today on the show, we are talking to Karen White on how to leave yourself clues along the way as you are writing. This is one of those things that I love to talk about to think about. It was kind of a revelation when I started writing that you could be leaving yourself clues along the way. Sometimes we know it, sometimes we don’t know it. So, stick around for the conversation. You might hear in my voice, that it sounds a little bit different. Of course it does. It’s going to sound different for a long time. 

[00:00:52] Right now, I’m coming to you from an Airbnb in Tamasca, Oakland, and it’s a lovely little Airbnb. It’s fantastic. It has two bedrooms, which is great because then my wife gets one bedroom for all of her stuff. She likes to lay her suitcases out and get everything out, whereas I like to be a little bit more compact and I’ve decided that maybe two bedrooms is the way to go. This Airbnb is particularly nice because I’m at a desk. I have a whole desk. Also, it has a front little patio and a veranda, which is kind of surrounded by this enormous fig tree and, what is the other one? Some kind of a plum tree and a lemon and it’s on the second story and it really feels kind of tropical and wonderful to sit, just surrounded by greenery on this big, long veranda, with a beautiful table. So as soon as I finish recording this, I have decided I’m going to go out there and do a little bit of reading. Because, I don’t think any of us take enough time to read on the veranda, do we? 

[00:01:56] One of the things that broke my heart a little bit about leaving our house, which we did on Monday, and Tuesday, two days ago, is that at the very last minute one of the very last things I gave away on Craigslist was our hammock. And I am a hammock girl. I love a hammock. I love to be in a hammock. I love to be reading, well, the number one thing I like to do in a hammock is read. The number two thing I like to do is do fall asleep while reading. And it is not one of those things that I prioritize. And I only did it once this year in 2021 since taking the hammock fabric part out and hanging it up for the season. I did it once and maybe only for 20 minutes and I was in a hurry and I was doing other things around the house and getting things ready. I regret that and I want more time outside with a book, chillaxin. So, I am thinking about prioritizing things.

[00:02:55] For the last four months and approximately one day, I prioritized moving. I also prioritized working and working, work is something that I am good by now at prioritizing, even when it doesn’t feel good, I just do it. That’s fine. But we decided to move and four months and one day later, we had sold the house and we’re completely out on Tuesday. We left the keys, we left a bottle of champagne for the new owners. You could always see those kinds of things if you follow me on Instagram @RachaelHerron. And it was really emotional, you know, you guys have been with me on this journey. A lot of you have, as we get ready to go and actually locking the door with the keys that we’re no longer at, why am I gonna just cry thinking about it, with the keys that were no longer ours. Leaving the keys inside our residence that we no longer own. But there’s this also real childish reaction that is like, oh my God, I can’t believe we never burned down the house. I can’t believe we didn’t destroy things while we were living there for 15 years. We were adults enough to do this, to have a house, and then to sell it and to make a little bit of money and to walk away happy and healthy. Those walls of that house saw so much happiness and a lot of grief, of course, and lots of squabbling of, you know, it’s all a lot of life. But more than anything else, I think it’s our happiness and I just hope that the people who bought it from us have half that much happiness and they’ll be set. 

[00:04:34] So, that was a big emotional thing that happened this week. And I’ve been talking to classes, my two classes that I’m teaching right now and thinking again about prioritizing because in the 90-day cycle that I teach, we are at about week nine, and this is where enthusiasm flags regularly. This is just where it drops off. And I just wanted to mention this real briefly that our enthusiasm for doing our writing will always flag. It will always fail. We will read a fantastic book on writing or we’ll read a fantastic novel or memoir, and we will be so inspired to write and to create that space where we are writers and we are actively doing our work. And then that might last for a few weeks, even a few months, sometimes. And then life gets in the way. We constantly have to reprioritize our writing. So, right. I wonder if you can hear that breeze that’s coming through the window, right on the microphone. It’s really a gorgeous day and the wind is just moving through the space. But I want you to ask yourself, where are you in terms of prioritizing your writing? Most writers, you’ve heard me say this before, and I’ll say it again many times in my life. Most writers don’t write, especially first drafts, more than an hour or two a day. More than an hour or two of first draft writing tends to exhaust the brain.

[00:06:00] It has been proven that deep work, even by people with high levels of mastery, can’t usually maintain that kind of deep mental thought work more than three or four hours max. So, it doesn’t take long to do your life’s work. It’s just that you have to figure out where you’re going to fit that hour or two into your day, into your busy life, into your busy schedule. So, when was the last time you sat down and said, okay, I’m going to get one hour a day, four days a week on my book and then make it happen? Put it on the calendar, actually do it rather than just hoping you will find a time to do it. You’re never going to find a time to do it, my friend. It doesn’t happen. We are occasionally moved to do work without planning it, but it is not a reliable way to get your work, your book or books done. So just a reminder, if writing has slipped away from you a little bit, it is time to reprioritize, fit it into your schedule. 

[00:07:05] Dude, I am in a stranger’s apartment in a place I’ve never been and still, I know the bare minimum of what I need to do to progress on the project, which I am working with right now. And I show up and do it. And it doesn’t matter how much you have to do in a day. You are never going to be less busy than you are right now, never. We always think we are. But you can’t wait until the job gets easier or until the kids leave the house or until the kids go back to preschool. You gotta find those 10 minutes, those 15 minutes, I’m being very prescriptive and bossy right now.  But I think that this is just something I’m hearing a lot from other people, the difficulty in finding the time in their day. I think that there’s a way that we speak about that that is not helpful. We talk about finding the time in our day. We don’t find the time in our day, every once in a while, you can find time in your day. But mostly honestly, my days are booked am-pm, hour by hour. I have to make time. I have to sink my teeth into the day and chew it out of the day. There’s blood and sinew left behind after I create and force myself to find the time where I write. And then I show up and I do a crappy job and it feels a little bit uncomfortable and I’m used to that discomfort and I show up the next day and I either write a more first draft crappy words, or I fix the ones from the day before, if that’s where I’m at in my process. 

[00:08:35] Where are you at in your process? Where do you need to find that time? Where do you need to make that commitment to yourself? And again, you’re gonna make that commitment and you’re going to keep it for awhile and then you’re going to fail. And that is the writers’ life. And then you realize, oh, I failed again, need to reprioritize. It’s just like in meditation, the magic is in getting distracted and bringing your thought, your thoughts back to what you were trying to focus on, your breath or a candle flavor, whatever it is you’re trying to do. The magic is in the distraction. The magic of keeping coming back, back to writing is noticing when you haven’t been writing and bring yourself back, gently and with love. And sometimes with sharp teeth. You can have gentleness and love and sharp teeth at the same time. As long as you are simply biting yourself, don’t bite anybody else. It’s not, it’s not hygienic or sanitary. 

[00:09:30] So, those are my words to you today. And I don’t know, I’m just feeling pretty freaking good that we did it, that we got out. I can’t keep saying that I hope the hardest part is over, of moving. I hope the hardest part is over. We both have two suitcases here and a backpack. That’s what we own. And, I, now we just have to move. Now, we just have to move from place to place. We’re going to be moving around Oakland a little bit. We’re going to be going to Idaho and then down south to LA to see family and friends before we leave. And then in 23 days from today, we’re on a plane to our new life and I am very excited about it. Maybe next week, I’ll try to remember to talk about fear setting, which is something that I did recently, and it really helped me become truly excited about. I’m going to make myself a note to talk about that.  Also, if you’re waiting for a mini episode, because you asked me a question, because you’re at that $5 a month level on Patreon and haven’t answered it yet, I am very sorry. Every single day, I’m trying. I have a note, must do the bonus mini episode and I haven’t done it because I’ve been too busy. And then when I do collapse on the bed, I’m just scrolling through TikTok because I’m so tired. So, that is coming soon, I promise. And I’ll talk about fear setting next week, and I know that you’re going to enjoy this interview with Karen White. Please come find me on the internet, where I live, wherever that is, good by me, basically all the places. Leave me a note with how you are doing. 

[00:11:02] Oh, I got a really nice note from someone this week who said, I always hear you talk about your email list, but I was actually sitting at my desk this time. So, I rolled over and I typed in the URL and I joined your mailing list and y’all. My writers email list, haven’t sent any new ones out for a while because I’ve been busy, but there’s one already drafted on my desktop. I’m going to stop making excuses. But my auto-responder sequence is I think it’s probably seven or eight emails long, and it is juicy goodness of gifts. Basically, I’m giving you of things I have learned the hard way from writing. It’s all free stuff. Just sign up and get it. It’s letters of encouragement. That’s all it is. So, if you’re sitting at a place where you could reach your phone or at a computer, type in RachaelHerron.com/Write and just sign up for my email newsletter.  Right now, why don’t you do it? Rachel Herron, Rachael spelled funny, R A C H A E L H E R R O N.com/write. Sign yourself up for that. The thing I love from that the most is that in that first email, I ask and I want to hear from you, what you are struggling with. I read every letter and I respond to every letter because you matter to me. So, I would love to hear from you. I would love for you to sign up and enter that correspondence with me. It’s, I always complain about my email backlog and email is the bane of my existence, except for hearing from writers. That is the joy of my existence. So please come get some email into my inbox from writers. All right, I’m feeling a little silly and a little punchy, and I’m going to go sit on a veranda and read a book. I’m reading The Echo Wife. It’s a trip right now. And I’m really enjoying it so I can’t wait to do that, right the heck now. Enjoy the interview and get some writing, reprioritize your time, my friends. And then tell me about it. All right, goodbye. 

Rachael Herron: [00:12:57] Okay. Well, I could not be more pleased to welcome to the show today, Karen White. Hello, Karen. Welcome!

Karen White: [00:13:03] Hi, Rachael. Thanks for having me today. 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:05] I’m thrilled to have you. Let me give you a little introduction. Karen White is the New York Times bestselling author of more than twenty-five novels, including the Tradd Street series, Dreams of Falling, The Night the Lights Went Out, Flight Patterns, The Sound of Glass, I love that title, A Long Time Gone, and The Time Between. She is the coauthor of multiple books with New York Times bestselling authors Beatriz Williams and Lauren Willig. She grew up in London but now lives with her husband and two dogs near Atlanta, Georgia. And the Last Night in London is her most recent release. And we were just saying that you might hear or see some of our dogs as you’re listening or watching this. So, welcome, welcome! Your new book is so exciting and I’m so thrilled to be able to talk to you about it.

Karen White: [00:13:50] Thank you.

Rachael Herron: [00:13:51] This show is for writers, about writers and it is about the writing process. And you’re so prolific. I can’t wait to talk to you about it. 

Karen White: [00:14:01] I’m sorry about that

Rachael Herron: [00:14:02] No, I know I am too. I love talking to prolific writers, but I would love to know how you, how do you do it? How do you get it done?

Karen White: [00:14:10] I honestly, I don’t know. When I, you could see my desk right now. I mean, I have been struggling the last few months, really the last couple years, just because, you know, I have, it was easier when my kids were younger and lived at home. It was easier to organize my days. And then the more popular you become, you know, the more demands on your time. I’ve also inherited my older parents, which is a full-time job. And it’s not as regulated as when, you know, I knew that when I dropped my kids off at school, I would have X amount of time before I would have to go pick them up. And even after I picked them up, I could bring my laptop and take them to the, you know, horseback riding or whatever. And so, it was just very, very diligent. And now I’m just, you know, I’m plus the social media that, you know, social media is just exploding and I’m expected to spend a lot of time on social media and I didn’t have that before. So, it was a lot easier to stay focused, to not be constantly, you know, texted or whatever. I mean, when my kids were growing up, I had my phone, I would just leave it in the car because I just wanted for emergencies or to, yep, there’s your doggy.

Rachael Herron: [00:15:22] There’s my dog coming out.

Karen White: [00:15:24] You know, so, I think it’s just getting harder and harder because of that. Not just because of my life, but also because of the world and how, you know, authors now are expected to be very accessible. And so it, I don’t know how I’m doing it anymore. I will tell you one thing, I have like little to no downtime, so it’s hard. But I’m really working to change that, but, I, I’m at a good holding pattern right now. I’m trying to be very structured with my days, you know, but it’s hard. It’s hard. So I just do what I have to do. I write whenever I can, whenever I’m not doing anything else.

Rachael Herron: [00:16:09] So you’re not strictly a morning writer or an afternoon writer, but it fits it around everything else.

Karen White: [00:16:15] Right. I try to be a morning writer. You know, I do get up an hour early before the dogs and my husband. Cause that is my best time. And I don’t turn on my phone. I don’t look at social media. I don’t do anything, but sit at my computer. And even if it’s not the best writing I can do, at least I’ve got something. So, when I go back to it during the little snatches of time to the rest of the day, I at least have got a flow going and I know kind of where I’m heading with the scene or whatever. And that really helped because I love morning writing and, yeah, the rest of my life would go away. I could really, you know, just sit down for a few hours and you know, and get it done. But I even not that long ago, I remember just sitting when I was on deadline and just locking myself in my office and working and writing and it was joyous. And now it’s like, oh my gosh, I’ve got to get up and I’ve got to do this. I’ve got to pay these bills for my dad. And I, sorry and the squeaking. 

Rachael Herron: [00:17:13] I love the squeaking.

Karen White: [00:17:14] Yeah, and I need to chase it. And also, I have a, so my mother has Alzheimer’s, my dad has dementia and now my 15-year-old dog, not the one who’s squeaking, the one who is somewhere in the house, has to wear double diapers. So, it’s like,

Rachael Herron: [00:17:27] That’s a lot. Are your parents in the house with you?

Karen White: [00:17:30] Oh lord, no. 

Rachael Herron: [00:17:31] Okay. I was going to say you can’t write anything if that were true, oh my god.

Karen White: [00:17:34] Oh no, that would be the end. That would be the end of my career. No, they aren’t. They are in a facility, but I take care of everything. Everything. Doctors, insurance, pills, all that. 

Rachael Herron: [00:17:48] I feel honored that you were able to spend the time with me here. That’s fantastic. I know. The talking. 

Karen White: [00:17:51] Well, this is the fun thing, you know. And I’m honored I can, you know, take care of my parents. But you know, I have to remind myself that my career is extremely important to me and I work very hard on these books and on this book, and this is what I want to do. And if I have to like, not take a vacation for four years, which is kind of where I am right now, to get it all done, then that’s what I’m going to do because it’s temporary. This is a season. It’s not always going to be this way.

Rachael Herron: [00:18:19] Yes. I really like thinking about writing and our lives in the, in terms of seasons. It’s really important for our sustainability as writers.

Karen White: [00:18:28] Exactly, exactly. And I, you know, I do try to, I try to relax. I take breaks during the day. You know, like I’ll do a 20-minute nap because I can’t live. Cause I, like I said, I get up very early, so it’s a long day and I normally don’t turn my computer off till 10 at night. And that’s just email and social media, you know, that kind of thing. And you know, 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:50] I just took a 25-minute reading break on the couch, which is right before we talked and I never do that and it just felt so good and so delicious. I need to do it more often. 

Karen White: [00:18:58] And you know what, that’s the other thing, absolutely. I love to read and I was realizing, I wasn’t reading anything friends would have books come out and I wouldn’t have any idea you know, what they were about. And, I do a lot of audio books, you know, because I drive a lot, but I love a print book. So, I’ve been doing, and that’s what I do, I do, I take reading breaks during the day, usually right before I write, I’d like to read maybe 15 minutes and then, so that’s my treat. So, when I, you know, gone doing stuff and I have to get back to writing and it’s like, oh, I’m so tired, I don’t want to write, like, well, you can have 15 minutes of reading first and then you can write. 

Rachael Herron: [00:19:32] I love that. And it primes the well and serves as inspiration.

Karen White: [00:19:36] Absolutely. And there’s so many great books out right now.

Rachael Herron: [00:19:38] I know there’s so many, there’s so many, including yours. What is your biggest joy when it comes to writing? 

Karen White: [00:19:46] You know, it’s when, well, typing the end. 

Rachael Herron: [00:19:50] Oh yeah. 

Karen White: [00:19:51] Yeah. I’m definitely one of those writers who, and again, I can never remember the famous writer who said this but, I don’t enjoy writing, I enjoy having written. 

Rachael Herron: [00:20:03] Yes.

Karen White: [00:20:04] Because it’s hard, it’s hard, you know, and you, I’ve been doing this for a very, very, very long time, and I still, you know, I still find the joys when I’m in that rhythm. I mean, it’s harder lately cause I, it, I’m so fractured. But when I get the time to sit and do nothing but just, you know, dive into my characters and my stories, that that is the biggest joy. But I have to say, and something that has been really missing and during this COVID year when I haven’t been allowed to go out and see readers, I love talking to readers who read my books and they want to talk about these characters as if they are as real to them as they are to me and you know, what it meant to them. And I do, I get, and they do email me and that is, you know, just lovely, you know, when I hear from people, you know, say, just the kindest things about what my words had meant to them and their lives. And these are people, you know, I might never have met if it weren’t through the words of my books. So that is a wonderful thing. I might not be a neurosurgeon, you know, and saving lives, but at least I like to think that I have positively impacted other people’s lives.

Rachael Herron: [00:21:11] Absolutely. That’s what we do. That’s amazing. Would you mind sharing a craft tip of any sort with our writer listeners? 

Karen White: [00:21:21] Yeah. One thing that has become very important to me since I have to stop writing and do something else and then get back to the writing, like throughout the day. And that is exhausting, you know, it’s so much, it really is easier to just sit down and do it in one long stretch for however long you have and it’s hard this way. And I find that if I leave my writing, where, whatever I’m doing before I have to stop it, if I leave it on, like in the middle of a sentence, the middle of a paragraph, the middle of an action, the middle of dialogue, then it’s easier to jump back in instead of like finishing a scene and then like, yeah, I’m going to get started. Because it’s so hard, especially as your day goes through and you’re getting more and more tired and not like meant, you know, physically tired. But for me, the mental fatigue is real because I’m juggling so many balls in the air and it gets exhausting. So by the time, like I try to do my last round of writing, usually around four o’clock and sometimes five or six. And, if I haven’t set it up, there’s just no way that’s going to be, I’ll start like, oh, I know I need to check Instagram. You know, I become like the magpie that shiny, but I find that’s a really big help. And then, it just it’s like the jumping board to dive into your story again.        

Rachael Herron: [00:22:50] I love that you set that up throughout your day. And I also love how well it dovetails with the idea of you starting early in the morning. I have this theory that if we touch it early in the morning, it just makes it easier to go back to all day long because we’re not scared of it. But for some reason, if it’s 4:00 PM and we’ve been putting it off, now I’ve had an entire day of now, now I’m scared.

Karen White: [00:23:09] Now I’m really scared. Now there’s a reason why I’m scared and 100% and like when I have to do doctor’s appointments and things, I never make them first thing in the morning, even if it’s a fasting appointment, because I want to be able to get those, you know, that hour in, in the morning. And then I do a workout, you know, cause that kind of, you know, invigorates the brain. And, you know, then get dressed, whatever, and then I can do other things. But I don’t want to start, you know, social media because the longer you pushed it, it’s like, you know, studying for that test or doing that homework. You know, when you were in school, the longer you put it off, the uglier it is. So just, let’s, just do it because, and remind yourself that this is something you choose to do. This is something that at least for me, at one point, you know, did give me a lot of joy and it still gives me a lot of joy. It’s just, I’m, it always tends to be the last thing in my life that I get to, get to do. And it’s the one thing that I want to do, which is kind of funny how upside down my life is. So, I find that if I just carve out, even if it’s just chunks of time during the day, but I have to be very, very diligent about it, and very disciplined and I am, I’m very disciplined. I don’t think you could write this many books and live life, you know, without being very disciplined.

Rachael Herron: [00:24:37] I love that. What thing in your life affects your writing in a surprising way? 

Karen White: [00:24:44] Like negative or bad or?

Rachael Herron: [00:24:45] Either, either way. Good or bad.

Karen White: [00:24:49] You know, it’s funny. And I, because we’re all writers, like I really absorb things, whether it be a movie I watched with a friend, or a series I’m watching, or a book I’m reading, the notions really affect me. 

Rachael Herron: [00:25:08] Ooh, how so?

Karen White: [00:25:09] Well, like right now, I’m not binge watching. Cause I don’t have, like, when I eat lunch, I turn on the TV for 20 minutes and I’ve been watching, it’s an Australian series, it was seven or eight, what do you call them? Not episodes. 

Rachael Herron: [00:25:28] Oh, seasons?

Karen White: [00:25:29] Seasons. Thank you. That ended in 2015 and it set in Australia, sort of at the, in the fifties. And I’m addicted, but there’s so much family tension and drama. I’m just like drawn into it. And, I just find that it’s sort of, it flips the light switch on my own emotions, you know, not the same emotions, but it just kind of invigorates me. It just kind of electrifies me so that when I go back to my own, I’m just a little more, you know, ready to impart emotions into my characters. 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:06] So we kind of, I think of it sometimes, like I’m a vampire. I’m stealing some of that energy.

Karen White: [00:26:12] Yeah exactly.

Rachael Herron: [00:26:13] In order to put it in our own. 

Karen White: [00:26:14] Exactly, exactly. 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:16] What is the name of that series?

Karen White: [00:26:17] It’s called A Place to Call Home.

Rachael Herron: [00:26:19] I’ve never heard of it, it sounds fabulous. 

Karen White: [00:26:21] It’s on prime video and,

Rachael Herron: [00:26:24] Oh, good.

Karen White: [00:26:25] I am, and I told my daughter about it and she’s addicted and I always had store dropping off books just to. Long story, but, there’s like five or six people in the store, all masked, all socially distanced and, one of the own, I mentioned that I’d been watching the series and I said a place to call home, and every single woman was like, oh my gosh. That is like, so makes, so you have to, it’s so good. It’s like every storyline and it’s not like I want to call it, it’s not a soap opera because it’s not, because it’s unexpected. 

Rachael Herron: [00:27:07] It’s sounds wonderful. 

Karen White: [00:27:09] Yeah. The way the characters change and grow. It’s like, it’s not like in soap operas, you know, where Erica Kane was always the same person? You know, there is kind of one character like that who we just can’t wait until she dies. She’s so evil. But, you know, like, they all change and learn and, it’s just an, it’s a brilliant show.

Rachael Herron: [00:27:33] I had been looking for a new series. I’ve been looking for something- I’ve been looking for something exactly like that to kind of energize myself. So,

Karen White: [00:27:39] Yes. I was too, I was too. And like I said, there’s seven or eight,

Rachael Herron: [00:27:45] Seasons.

Karen White: [00:27:14] Thank you. I’m sorry. It is, I’ve always, like I said, this is my third cup of the day and it’s like five o’clock in the,

Rachael Herron: [00:27:54] It’s fabulous.

Karen White: [00:27:26] Seasons. So, it’s like, once you start, it’s like my daughter is like way behind and I’m like, would you please catch up so we can talk about what’s going on. 

Rachael Herron: [00:28:06] That sounds wonderful. Thank you for that recommendation. Speaking of recommendations, what’s the best book you’ve read recently and why did you love it?

Karen White: [00:28:14] Wow. I’ve read so many because I’ve been given a lot to read for, there’s so many books out right now. So, and I, and again, I listened to a lot on audible. When I recently finished on audible is one of my favorite, I haven’t read her in a while, but she’s one of my favorite authors, Simone, Simone, St. James? 

Rachael Herron: [00:28:35] No, I don’t know her.

Karen White: [00:28:36] And it’s called The Sun Down Motel. And it’s sort of like, if you like my triad street series, so there’s a little bit of a paranormal thing, very spooky. She’s such a great writer, such a great writer. Just really, really gives you those tinglies and, yeah, really. And that’s the first one I’ve listened to audio. I’ve read the other ones in paper version. And also, historical wise, I, oh gosh. So, I have to give a shout out. I haven’t read Beatrice’s coming book, which comes out in June. But Lauren just had a book come out March, The Band of Sisters, which is historical fiction, World War one. And she found out about this Smith college relief unit, while doing research for All the Ways We Say Goodbye, which is a book that we wrote together. And, she was, you know, doing research on Christmas customs in France, in during world war one. And she came up with this note about or a newspaper article about this group of women from Smith college that came to help at the front.

Rachael Herron: [00:29:45] Wow. 

Karen White: [00:29:47] Nobody had ever heard of this, but, she, because she’s such an excellent research person, she found, you know, letters that these women had written back home that are in the Smith college archives. And so, it just kind of and it’s, it is my, I love all of her books, but this is my favorite so far. The characters are just so well done in the story and you feel like you were there and you laugh, you cry with the women and it’s, it’s just, you know. It’s amazing to see how these very privileged women really got their, you know, feet wet and really, you know, made big differences to these people who had been bombed out of their homes, until they were shelled and they had to leave, but, really an incredible story really, really loved it.

Rachael Herron: [00:30:36] Thank you for that recommendation. It sounds amazing. Speaking of amazing and recommendations, can you tell us a little bit about your latest book, The Last Night in London?

Karen White: [00:30:44] Okay. Well, you know, it took me 400 pages to write it, so I’ll try to not size it. So it is a dual timeline story. So, we have, late 1930s, early 1940s. So there’d be a beginning of a world war II in England. And then we have contemporary time also in England, but the main character is Southern. I wrote Falling Home and After the Rain about 10 years ago, and both of those books are set in a small town called Walton, Georgia. And, one of the secondary characters is a 14-year-old girl in Falling Home and an 18-year-old girl in After the Rain. And ever since those books came out, I had been asked by readers to tell the rest of Maddie’s story. So, I’ve been looking for the perfect story for her. And that’s why she’s the lead character. Actually, there are two lead characters. She’s the lead character in the modern story, in The Last Night in London. And the other characters, Precious Dubose, who you might remember from All the Ways We Said Goodbye. And we see her there at the Paris Fritz in 1964. And she was also everybody’s favorite character and people have been saying, we need to see more Precious. So, Beatrice and Lauren, let me use that character for this book. And in All the Ways We Said Goodbye, and believe, this is not a sequel. These are just, I’m just borrowing characters. So it’s like kind of a reunion for me. And you don’t have to read the others.

Rachael Herron: [00:32:14] How fun that is.

Karen White: [00:32:15] But it wouldn’t be fun. You know, if you enjoy this book, you might enjoy reading those other ones. But, so, yeah, they let me borrow Precious and in the book, All the Ways We Said Goodbye. Precious alludes to some big event back in the war. And you don’t really know, and she talks about a big loss in her life and something that she’s always regretted, but we don’t know what that is. And when we wrote that, we didn’t know what that was. So, I thought, I’m going in this book so we can find out what that is. And so, we do find out. So, we have Maddie Warner, she’s now a journalist, a freelance journalist and she’s hired by a friend who is now a, an editor at British Vogue. She’s hired Maddie to interview Precious Dubose for her 100th anniversary. Precious has donated her clothes to the London Museum, London fashion museum. And it’s going to be on a theme of fashion in a time of crisis because Precious Dubose was a fashion model in London, during the thirties and forties, and then in Paris during the fifties. So, she has these gorgeous clothes and Maddie’s like, oh, that sounds like, you know, amazing. So they, so she comes to London to interview Precious. And of course, both of them have pasts, both of them have sorrows in their life. And both of them have secrets that they are trying to hide from others. And so, as they, as they get together, it’s, instead of just a straightforward interview, they both find that they are peeling back the layers and discovering an unexpected friendship and also ways to heal through their connection with each other. And the best part about it is, it is set in both time periods in the place where I lived for seven years in London on Regents Park, a building that did sustain damage during the blitz. So, it was the perfect setting for this book. 

Rachael Herron: [00:34:11] Oh, how fun. And I think you did an amazing, an amazing job summing up 400 pages into,

Karen White: [00:34:19] Thank you. I don’t know how to, you know, I don’t know how to, 

Rachael Herron: [00:34:22] That wasn’t rambling. That was wonderful. And where can we find you out on the internet? 

Karen White: [00:34:28] Oh gosh. Where can’t you find me these days? The best place to start is my website, Karen-White.com. It’s in my background here. There, you can find all the links to my social media. I’m on Twitter @KarenWhiteWrite, W R I T E. And I’m on Instagram @KarenWhiteWrite, W R I T E. And, Facebook, (KarenWhiteAuthor) 

Rachael Herron: [00:34:56] Perfect. Karen, it’s been a treat to talk to you. Thank you so very much for talking to us today.

Karen White: [00:35:01] Rachael, thank you, with my pleasure. 

Rachael Herron: [00:35:02] All right. Happy writing. Bye!

Karen White: [00:35:04] Thank you, you too. 

Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.