Ashley Audrain previously worked as the publicity director of Penguin Books Canada. Prior to Penguin, she worked in public relations. She lives in Toronto, where she and her partner are raising their two young children. The Push is her first novel.
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Transcript
Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.
[00:00:16] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode #219 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. I am so thrilled that you’re here, today, we are talking to the marvelous Ashley Audrain. I had the chance to read her book, The Push, which is out now, and you should get it. It’s so good. It’s so good. And she is delightful and charming. And so smart about all of this. And we talked quite a bit about what it is like to be doing writing during lockdown still, almost a year later. So stay tuned for that. [00:00:50] A little update about what’s going on around here. I am still sick, I still haven’t had an MRI, still fighting with insurance. It is a full-time job and quite disheartening. The thing that disheartens me the most, and I’ll only dwell on this for a moment is that I am a strong and mostly healthy and stubborn and well off. And I had, I have a partner who advocates for me too. I have all of these things and we can’t get the help that I need. And I am the exception to the rule. So many people in this country have no one fighting for them. Don’t have the resources, don’t have the means. Don’t have half of what I have, and they are struggling with bigger, worse things. And it makes me so upset at this healthcare system. Yesterday, we were kind of losing it and my wife came in my office and looked down at our old dog who is still happily with us and she’s curled up on my couch right now. But if she were not here, my wife pointed out, we would be packing our boxes right now. I am not saying in any way that New Zealand is a panacea. It’s not a cure. All New Zealand has its own problems. [00:02:08] But in New Zealand, I could get healthcare. We have excellent insurance. We have a high cost PPO top of the line, through lawless job and still just can’t get anything done. So, I’m struggling with that. But in good news, yesterday was also as I record this, the inauguration and we don’t have to deal with the previous person who sat in the white house because, he’s gone and it makes me happy. And yesterday was a good day for that. So, I thought the inauguration was beautiful. I thought the speeches were great. Yeah, it’s, it’s a good feeling. There was a real sense of relief that was lifted a sense of this burden that was lifted from us just a little bit. And it, we still have every single systemic problem that is in this country, but it’s actually being named now, you know, Biden said the words, white supremacy and domestic terrorism. He said those words in his speech, the moment of silence for those lost to coronavirus, like so incredibly moving and it’s just such a relief to have somebody taking this stuff seriously. So I take heart in that. [00:03:29] Oh, what else is going on? My classes started the 90 Days to Done classes. And I have to tell you, I can say this now because it’s Thursday, as I record Tuesday was the first day of classes. I had pushed the classes a couple of weeks because of my health and I was not sure I would be able to set up for those hours. Honestly, I did not know if I’d have enough energy to do the classes. And I did. Not only did I have the energy, but that night was the best that I have felt in more than a month. I had energy. I was bouncing around the house, doing things, dieting, cleaning, probably wear myself out a little bit. But it felt so good. I feel like I was a little vampiric perhaps like stealing some of my students’ energy. I don’t think I was, my whole goal in life is to give my energy to students, but there was some kind of exchange and it was beautiful. And I loved opening these classes and it’s going to be so fun to work with them on writing their books in 90 days or revising their books in 90 days. So that has been awesome. Also, I am actually writing again. I took like three and a half, almost four weeks off. Just could not write on my book while I was dealing with all the pain. [00:04:44] So, starting Monday, I got my butt in the chair and I’ve written every day since including yesterday, inauguration day, which was very difficult. But, I can’t- I don’t think I’ve said this on this podcast. I just can’t remember, but I have been reading this book Called The 12-Week Year, which is pretty basic. It’s about setting goals and moving toward them by calculating and watching your actions. But I have, I’m finding it inspiring. I basically, I live my life in 12 week chunks anyway, so this has been helping and I have some pretty big goals for the next 12 weeks. And it’s been great to be able to sit in the chair and get some writing done. And that has felt really good. I’m hoping to finish the first draft of the book I’m working on right now in the next two weeks. I think. I’m looking at my calendar. So that’s the goal. And I hope that I hit it. If not, I will rejigger, rejiggering is always an option, but I think I’m on track. [00:05:42] That’s the catch up around business. I would just like to shout out Kanny. Hello, Kanny! Kanny has been transcribing my podcasts for my blog for more than a year now. And she just got married and Kanny, happy wedding to you. I hope that you are full of nuptial bliss and thank you for the incredible, excellent work that you do on the show. I really, really appreciate you. So, oh, the other thing I want to say is, thank you to Sarah, my new patron. If you ever want to look at the patron levels, you can always go to patreon.com/Rachael. I owe ya’ all a mini podcast bonus episode answering. I think I have only a couple of questions. So if any of you are at the Patreon level $5 and above that, you want to ask me any questions about writing? Let’s get a few more in and then I’ll do that mini episode before you, cause I’m feeling better and I can do that. So let’s jump into the interview with Ashley. I know that you are going to enjoy it, and I wish you, yourself, you are listening to the show because you are a writer. You are a writer. You’re not a wanna be. You don’t feel like perhaps someday you wish you could be a writer. You are a writer. So do some writing and then come find me and tell me about it. Okay my friends, bye! [00:07:01] Hey, is resistance keeping you from writing? Are you looking for an actual writing community in which you can make a calls and be held accountable for them? Join RachaelSaysWrite, like twice weekly, two hour writing session on zoom. You can bop in and out of the writing room as your schedule needs, but for just $39 a month, you can write up to 4 hours a week. With our wonderful little community, in which you’ll actually get to know your writing peers. We write from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM on Tuesdays and 4:00 PM to 6:00 PM on Thursdays and that’s US Pacific Standard Time. Go to RachaelHerron.com/Write to find out more.Rachael Herron: [00:07:42] Well, I could not be more pleased to welcome to the show today. Ashley Audrain. Hello, Ashley!
Ashley Audrain: [00:07:47] Hi, Rachael, thank you for having me.
Rachael Herron: [00:07:50] I am thrilled to have you. Let me give you your bio quickly. So we’ll just get this out of the way. Ashley Audrain previously worked as the publicity director of Penguin Books Canada. Prior to Penguin, she worked in public relations. She lives in Toronto, which is a city I love, where she and her partner are raising their two young children. The Push is her first novel. Okay. So I write for Penguin as well, Penguin United States. And, they sent me, you know, would you be interested in this book? And I say yes to books, and then I forget what they were about or whatever and I’m just reading the net galley and there’s no cover. And I started reading your book. I’m like, Oh, this is just, this is going to be a nice, you know, novel about motherhood. And then it got real.
Ashley Audrain: [00:08:34] Very real. I know
Rachael Herron: [00:08:36] I loved it. I loved your book.
Ashley Audrain: [00:08:37] Thank you Rachael,
Rachael Herron: [00:08:38] I read so many- what genre would you call this?
Ashley Audrain: [00:08:44] Well, we sort of are calling it psychological thriller. I mean, that’s sort of what the publishers are coming it, although we all sort of agree, it’s sort of a hybrid between that and sort of more of a middle of the road kind of fiction that’s somewhere in the middle.
Rachael Herron: [00:08:59] It’s really, it’s kind of- I hate that phrase, domestic thriller. That’s where they put me too, but it’s kind of domestic thriller plus literary fiction. And I was lulled into the sense of literary fiction at the beginning. And then I was like, yes, you’re here. I mean, I love both. Here we go. And it was shocking and beautiful and your language is so incredible. And I just really loved the book and this is- as my listeners know, this is not what I tell everybody. So,
Ashley Audrain: [00:09:24] That’s so lovely. Thank you so much, Rachael. That means a lot. Thank you.
Rachael Herron: [00:09:28] How does it- we’re going to get into your process. You know, that’s what we talk about on the show, but how does it feel to move from being inside baseball, to being like the pitcher at bat? I don’t, like I actually don’t know sports, so I hope I got that right.
Ashley Audrain: [00:09:42] Yes. I think it sounds right. I don’t know either, but it’s very strange, honestly, it’s sort of a strange, as you would imagine, it’s, there’s a severe illness to it because you’re sort of, I’ve been in this world before on the other side. So it’s, yeah, it’s sort of, I think being in, working in publishing and having been in publicity, I mean, I’m sort of prepares you for what this experience can be like. And so, you know, you certainly don’t go into it blind. I sort of, you know, done that all, like spent time arranging the interviews and the tours and all of that. But I do think, you know, I think my expectations have been very managed because I’ve worked in publicity and in publishing. And, you know, I know firsthand from just the stuff that I used to work with the books and the authors that I worked on that, you know, just because you put a lot of energy and effort in marketing dollars behind a book, it doesn’t mean that it’s going to work. You know, you don’t know until it gets in the hands of readers and then vice versa, you know, there were always those books that they don’t get the pre-pub attention and they end up doing, you know, phenomenal things once they’re in the hands of readers. And so, yeah, it’s sort of, I’m very appreciative. And so I just feel so grateful for like the effort that you know, all of kind Penguin put behind this book. But you just don’t know until it’s sort of, you know, in reader’s hands
Rachael Herron: [00:10:55] Well, and I got an email from your publicist yesterday that says it’s been chosen for the Good Morning America Book Club, or I can’t remember exactly the terms, but holy crap!
Ashley Audrain: [00:11:06] Yeah. Yeah. So that’s what I said too.
Rachael Herron: [00:11:10] Holy crap. That is some sales. I’m so happy for this book. And I’m so happy that I got my little grubby mitts on it early. When does it come out? We are recording this on January 6th so,
Ashley Audrain: [00:11:21] It actually just came out yesterday. So this is like publication week now.
Rachael Herron: [00:11:25] Congratulations!
Ashley Audrain: [00:11:6] Yes. Thank you! Thanks.
Rachael Herron: [00:11:27] Oh, that’s so exciting. I really, really encourage anybody who loves this kind of thing to go out and get it right, right now. Well, so let’s talk about how you shifted to your life. Where, where did writing this book fit into your life? Were you at Penguin then? Or was it in the margins? What, how did you get this done?
Ashley Audrain: [00:11:44] Yeah. So I was not in Penguin yet when I started writing this. So I had always wanted to write and, you know, wanting to be a writer. That’s what I would’ve told you I wanted to be, when I was like six. But gone to a different route of sort of, you know, because I had to make a living and find, went down the route of, you know, communications and PR and marketing, which kind of brought me that sort of the career path that brought me to Penguin to do publicity and I didn’t write much when I was at Penguin, when I was working there. And I think it’s because it’s, you know, such a humbling experience to be an aspiring writer and working in publishing with, you know, these great authors. So I kinda had put writing aside and I left Penguin to go on mat-leave, to go on maternity leave here, which we have a full year here in Canada, which is lovely,
Rachael Herron: [00:12:26] Amazing, yeah.
Ashley Audrain: [00:12:27] Yeah. And so he, my son was about six months old when I started writing. And it really was I felt a lot of creative energy at that point. You know, having become a mother, I felt like I had a story to tell, and I, it was sort of that urgent feeling when you just, you know the voice, you know the story, you know exactly what you need to be writing about. And that that’s kind of the head space that I was in when he was around that, around that six-month mark. So that’s when I began. So, and I, and I didn’t go back after that, you know, for lots of reasons. But, that was the shift where I realized when I started writing, I thought, no, like this is finally the time to pursue like a novel, like, not just kind of the writing courses on the side and sort of the playing around with fiction, but that the novel was there. So that that’s when it really began in my life. Yeah,
Rachael Herron: [00:13:13] Lovely. So did you fit it in around the naps or at night? Or how did that work?
Ashley Audrain: [00:13:18] So, I didn’t and I think, you know, a lot of people will say, usually people who’ve never had children will say, Oh, do you do your work during nap time? Or once they go to you, I could not, I could not function during nap time. I literally just needed to also lay down and have a nap. And so
Rachael Herron: [00:13:33] That makes sense to me. Yeah.
Ashley Audrain: [00:13:35] Yeah. So there was nothing productive happening in those hours, but, but what I did was I thought I, we were lucky enough to have around again, around that six-month mark, a babysitter coming a couple of times a week. And she came probably at that point twice a week. And it was like for two or three hours at a time. And instead of using those hours, you doing errands or socializing or whatever it was, I, those hours in my mind were completely devoted to writing. And so I have this visual of myself, like she would walk in the door and I would like run past her with like my laptop under my arm to the coffee shop down the street. And that was, those were the hour, that was it. And they were the best hours of my week. And they were so productive because they were so limited. And I would, that is how the book started. That was kind of the, you know, the only time that I had and, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t really go back to that once I was back inside the house and my son anymore, I was just acting so, so it was really, it was really these small chunks of time, which is, I think why the book took me so long to write. It took like over three years to kind of get it to a place where I felt like it was as good as it could be to go out to agents. So, yeah, and I, there was definitely with pockets- big pockets of time when I started, you know, getting more hours back and started being able to focus on it more. But I would say for a good year, I was sort of on that twice weekly schedule,
Rachael Herron: [00:14:50] You bring both of those passions to the page. And I know that we don’t, you know, we do not write about ourselves. These are not, we are not the character on the page. However, the main character in this book does have that deep, deep passion for this new bloom of motherhood with her son. Right? And she also has this deep, deep passion to get the words on the page. And they both, they’re both happening on the right there in front of us. And you can really feel it. You bring a depth and a realness to that. But I was just really knocked out by so absolutely gorgeous. I could feel both of those longings. What is your biggest challenge when it comes to writing?
Ashley Audrain: [00:15:32] You know, my biggest challenge is, hands down, just time and space, finding time and space. And I think, especially kind of being a mom with like 2 little kids now they’re three and five. And I think from day one, from that six-month old mark, when I started writing, I mean, that, that was out has always been my challenge. I’ve always, you know, some people say, oh, look, what do you do to kind of like escape and get away from writing. And it’s like, I’m always trying to get to the writing. I’m never trying to get away from it. But, so, time and space, like mentally and physically, I think, you know, really, really mentally and physically kind of getting that, that, that time and space back. And a lot of it has been having to, like, you know, financially invest in hours to write, which is very, a very hard thing to do when you’re not being paid to write yet. Like, you know, when you’re, you know, it’s your first book and you’re just an aspiring writer. Like, you know, thankfully I have a partner who’s very supportive and like, saw that, that was very important to me. But you know, those, that that can be a hard thing to kind of negotiate or a hard thing to convince yourself of, to like, you know, spend the whatever amount of money it is an hour to pay for a babysitter so that you can be like pursuing something that you never know is ever going to make you any money back. So you have to, and I think I never thought of it that way. I really just thought of it as like, this is, you know, some people might spend like 20 bucks to go to a gym class and like I was spending 20 bucks to like sit down for an hour and write and that, that’s kind of how I looked at it. Like it was what brought me happiness and it was what brought me joy and it was like my escape from life. And so I tried to just put it in that context for myself to try to get that. That time and space and yeah. But yeah, it’s still the problem now is like, you know, especially during lockdown and pandemic, like
Rachael Herron: [00:17:06] Yeah. Everything got so much harder. I cannot imagine being locked in a house with little kids, like that has got to be difficult,
Ashley Audrain: [00:17:14] It’s very difficult. And it’s not good for writing. It’s just not, it’s not good for writing. Like sometimes, you know, it’s, I mean, hard, no matter what, but like I have other friends that were trying to keep up like a nine to five. Like, you know, corporate job from home with kids.
Rachael Herron: [00:17:27] I can’t
Ashley Audrain: [00:17:28] But in a- which I cannot imagine, like at least I had the flexibility of not having to like, be at a meeting at one o’clock or whatever, but it also, yeah, it also makes it hard to kind of prioritize that time as well, because nobody is waiting for you, you know, at one o’clock on a conference call. So yeah.
Rachael Herron: [00:17:42] How do you do it? how do you make yourself do it?
Ashley Audrain: [00:17:44] I’ve really,
Rachael Herron: [00:17:47] That’s a big question I know.
Ashley Audrain: [00:17:49] You know what, yeah, it’s hard. You know, what I’ve been doing now is, and I don’t love doing, I’m starting to like it. I’m starting to convince myself I like it, is getting up early. It’s just the, and I know there’s like, you know, this 5:00 AM writer’s club idea that so many writers do. I don’t know if you do that or if you’ve done that before
Rachael Herron: [00:18:05] I used to do it a lot when I worked like a 12-hour day job, I would get up at 3:45 or 4, but now I get up at 8, you know,
Ashley Audrain: [00:18:12] That’s luxurious.
Rachael Herron: [00:18:13] Yeah, exactly.
Ashley Audrain: [00:18:16] Yeah. So that is really how I’m getting it done now. Ever since, I guess, March, just kind of shifted. I was in this lovely period where there’s this magical moment. I think, as a parent, when both your kids are finally in full-time childcare and that kind of happened for me earlier, like last year where one was in preschool and one was in kindergarten and I was like, oh my God, I like dropped them off. I went to a coffee shop. I would write for six and a half hours and then I would go pick them up and I would feel so satisfied and productive.
Rachael Herron: [00:18:43] And now that’s gone.
Ashley Audrain: [00:18:44] And now, that’s gone and so now we’re yeah, so now we’re doing the 5, 8 it’s 5:00 AM, which isn’t as bad as 3:45. But, so that’s, you know, Still painful. It’s like, you know, two or three hours before one of them wakes up. And so I just try to do that every day and hope it adds up. We’ll see.
Rachael Herron: [00:19:02] Good luck to you with that. My heart goes out to you. What is your biggest joy when it comes to writing?
Ashley Audrain: [00:19:08] My biggest joy is just the idea of possibility in writing.
Rachael Herron: [00:19:15] That’s beautiful
Ashley Audrain: [00:19:16] Oh, thanks. I, that is what it’s always been for me is just this possibility, like big scale and small scale, you know, just the idea that, you know, as a writer, you can do and you can write anything. Anything, you are in charge of the possibilities of what you’re going to write and what you’re going to create. I love the possibility of you can tell whatever story you want to tell. Like you can explore anything in life that you want through writing. And I love that about it. And you know, on the larger scale, and then on the smaller scale, you know, I love the possibility of sitting down for one of those precious writing sessions. And like, you don’t know, you could have your best sentence ever. You could write a paragraph that you love. You could have a breakthrough about something you’ve been trying to solve in your writing. And I love that. And you know, not all, not all sessions, kind of that possibility is not always realized as we all know, some days are painful, but I love that every time you sit down, you don’t know what you’re going to get
Rachael Herron: [00:20:12] And you can’t predict it. You can’t be at, you know, go to the page and think I’m going to have a breakthrough today. It’s always unexpected when it happens, but it only happens when we’re working that kind of breakthrough. That’s gorgeous.
Ashley Audrain: [00:20:25] And I love that. I love that about it. Yeah.
Rachael Herron: [00:20:27] Okay. Can you share a craft tip of any sort with us?
Ashley Audrain: [00:20:31] Yeah, so I. Yeah, I don’t, I, I feel like I don’t, I feel like I don’t have quite the, I mean, I’m still new at this, so I feel like I’m taking tips instead of giving them to be really honest with you. But I think, it’s kind of what we were just talking about. Like a lot of times I, you know, we need our bum in the seat and we need to be writing. We need to have a, we need to be productive, but for me, again, coming back to that possibilities, like I need to do that. And then I need to walk away and I need to like give myself that time to not be thinking about the book, because when I’m not thinking about the book, that’s when things come to me and the best- and so in sometimes I’ll think no, I’ve got like two more hours and I’ll have to pick the kids up. So I’ve got to just keep cranking away and keep working. And, you know, more times than not, if that’s not those aren’t the best writing hours, and if I feel like I’m, in stuck or whatever, I’m much better off to kind of like put on a podcast or go for a walk or whatever, and something, something will come. A good moment for me is before, when I have to drive to pick up both my kids from school. And if I, and I really liked that drive because I’ve had all these hours well before pandemic, I would have all these hours of thinking and writing and focus. And then I would walk away and I would just like, again, like turn on a podcast in the car or turn on a radio and then like halfway through the drive, it would, something would come to me and I would like pull over and write it down. And that, so that’s that I think for me, like part of the craft is just letting things percolate and letting things kind of come to you and maybe more of a practical one is, I’m a huge note taker and I, I almost don’t know how people do it, who don’t take notes all the time. Like, that’s just so much a part of it for me. And I take notes on my iPhone on, you know, the little yellow notes app on iPhone.
Rachael Herron: [00:22:14] Yes
Ashley Audrain: [00:22:15] I use that religiously, like, I mean, multiple times a day, I will take that out and make notes about things. Things I see or overhear, you know, out and about, or like things, you know, something that will come to me after seeing a friend or whenever like falling asleep any time. I always write it all down, even if I don’t know exactly what the use is for yet. Just things that to me speak volumes about life or have meaning or just like anything. I write it all down and then I have these lists. And then when I do sit down to write, I often go back and kind of mind the lists for ideas or things to incorporate or like I’ve never had- knock on wood- I’ve never had like a writer’s block before, because I just feel like I go to my list and there’s something in the list that sparks something for me.
Rachael Herron: [00:23:00] So I love this and I just- a little bit more detail on this, cause this is just the delicious stuff for me. When you’re sorting these little, you know, basically the yellow notes. Do you put them into the list then when your kind of going over them? Do you have one for character and one for ideas or how does that work? What does that look like?
Ashley Audrain: [00:23:14] So, yeah, so I have a note, like a titled note for different categories. So, like for example, like when I was going through kind of the revisions last changes on The Push, I would have like a note that was like revisions for like things I needed to go back and put into the story, and then I would have one for Violet and one for Fox and kind of all the characters or the problems I was solving. Like I had a list for backstory. And so as things came to me, I would like plop them in the list. And then when I went to like work on that part of the revision, they would kind of all sort of be organized there and then all, and then I have I also have a random note. That’s just like random ideas that I, they don’t really belong on what I’m writing right now, but I just things I never want to forget, you know, like I want to use somewhere. So I have that ongoing note. And then I have a note about the next idea. Like, whatever that like, so this is the second book I’m working on now. I had a note for a long time on this idea that was just like just like dumped anything in there. And I didn’t really know if I’d end up using it or if it would fit or not. And then when I came time to start cause I kind of outlining, which I, you know, use the term very loosely. But when I started doing that for the second book, I kind of had a place to go to like, to kind of jog my memory about the kinds of things I wanted to write about. So there’s, you know, it’s like organized chaos in there. I don’t know, but it works for me.
Rachael Herron: [00:24:37] I love that. I use Post-Its that so the physical kind for my revision exactly the way you do, but then for catching those daily ideas, I use Trello in exactly the same way.
Ashley Audrain: [00:24:45] Oh yes. Exactly
Rachael Herron: [00:24:46] Inbox and Trello, and I’m just constantly throwing things into there. And I don’t know how people do it without. I have no idea.
Ashley Audrain: [00:24:53] I don’t know. Neither do I.
Rachael Herron: [00:24:55] They’ve got their ways, but yeah,
Ashley Audrain: [00:24:57] Everyone’s way where it’s, I know I’m also a very forgetful person. I don’t know if you’re forgetful, are you forgetful?
Rachael Herron: [00:25:01] Very. Very.
Ashley Audrain: [00:25:02] So I think I, yeah, we need them. I feel people like us need them. Yeah.
Rachael Herron: [00:25:05] We had fallen back. We don’t make it through life without them. Exactly. Exactly.
Ashley Audrain: [00:25:08] Yes. For sure.
Rachael Herron: [00:25:09] What thing in your life affects your writing in a surprising way?
Ashley Audrain: [00:25:13] So yeah, I don’t know. Well maybe you’ve had other authors say this. I don’t know how surprising it is, but my physical environment where I am trying to write is huge, affects my writing hugely.
Rachael Herron: [00:25:26] Me too! And really nobody ever says that.
Ashley Audrain: [00:25:28] Oh, interesting.
Rachael Herron: [00:25:30] Has to be right.
Ashley Audrain: [00:25:32] Yes
Rachael Herron: [00:25:33] And also I need to know that the dishes are done.
Ashley Audrain: [00:25:34] Yes. Oh yes. Oh, I could. Yeah. I, it’s I’m- I am like that where I need every little thing done and then I can kind of sit down and do it, but the physical environment for me has been, I sort of just learned this about myself I think like, just how much it influences what I can do that day. Like what I’m writing that day, just the kinds of writing I’m doing. And unfortunately, I do not write well at home, which is not a good thing right now. And I’m really missing writing in public. I think that I just, I get an energy from writing in public that I’m realizing now is like very crucial to my work and the tone and the voice and everything. And I you’re not,
Rachael Herron: [00:26:12] Yeah. Me too. I’m exactly that person. I can’t, I was never able to write a home until the pandemic I had to learn.
Ashley Audrain: [00:26:18] No. And because now we’re- and I’m, I’m the same way. I’m like forced to kind of learn how to feel more creative in my kitchen or wherever. And I don’t love it and I’m struggling with it. So yeah, I really miss going to a coffee shop and sort of, you know, not being in the center of the busy-ness, but like sort of removed against the wall, the back of the coffee shop.
Rachael Herron: [00:26:35] Yes. Yes. Where you can watch everything
Ashley Audrain: [00:26:36] Yeah, and I don’t put your phones on. I really just let the noise of the coffee shop kind of like that is what I like. I love writing on like airplanes and you know
Rachael Herron: [00:26:47] Me too
Ashley Audrain: [00:26:48] All these other places we’re not allowed to be, right.
Rachael Herron: [00:26:49] You know where I love is a hotel lobby. There is nothing like a hotel lobby. It’s so vanilla and bland and there’s just so good.
Ashley Audrain: [00:26:59] Oh, I love it so much. I love that.
Rachael Herron: [00:27:01] I- sorry, I live in Oakland and sometimes I would go to San Francisco and just pick a hotel and go sit in the lobby and work there.
Ashley Audrain: [00:27:07] That’s a good idea.
Rachael Herron: [00:27:08] So how have you, kind of made up for that? For in my life here, I have turned my body 90 degrees, so I sit at this little table here and I make sure I have my drink and my candle. And I actually use cafe noises, people noises in my white noise. You, have you come up with any other?
Ashley Audrain: [00:27:25] That’s a good idea. I should also do that.
Rachael Herron: [00:27:27] Try it
Ashley Audrain: [00:27:28] No. Yeah. You know, I don’t know. I haven’t been really, I, I mean the early morning helps in a sense that it’s dark out and it feels like I can kind of, you know, I always have like a cup of tea, obviously kind of rolling. And it, the early morning is better than trying to do it I find like at other times of the day, there’s something a little more. I don’t know that just the mood is different in the house and it’s obviously quieter, but yeah, I haven’t, I’ve tried to move to different spots in the house, like tried to try and pick different places like, you know, the bed and the couch and the, you know, moved around, but I haven’t solved it yet, but I better, the way things are going, I think I better figure out the solution because it’s going to be awhile. So
Rachael Herron: [00:28:10] At least your conscious of it. Yeah. Okay. That’s awesome
Ashley Audrain: [00:28:11] Yeah, for sure. For sure. Oh, one thing, sorry.
Rachael Herron: [00:28:13] Yes, please say it.
Ashley Audrain: [00:28:14] One thing that they have done is because hotels are open. I haven’t gone to the lobby, which I should do, but twice, since the pandemic started, I have gone to a hotel for like a night. Like I think I was like less than 48 hours to write, just to write. And they’ve always been at like a breaking point where I’m like, I can’t, the kids, the thing, the house that I was like, I need to get something done. And especially for the second book I’m working on, like, you know, there’s deadlines there’s and so, and they don’t change in a pandemic. And so I’ve, so twice I’ve just said, like I know I’m outta here and kind of pass it over to my husband and said like, I’ve just got to go get like work for two hours, which I think is totally reasonable given you know, the circumstance that we’re in.
Rachael Herron: [00:28:52] Abso-freaking-lutely. Yes. You just like you blew my mind because I did realize that of course hotels are open and I wonder if their lobbies are open just to sit in.
Ashley Audrain: [00:29:00] Well, you,
Rachael Herron: [00:29:01] Nobody ever asks if you belong there, nobody has ever come along and carted somebody. What room are you in, Ma’am? Right?
Ashley Audrain: [00:29:06] That’s so true. Yeah. That’s a good idea
Rachael Herron: [00:29:10] I’m gonna try it.
Ashley Audrain: [00:29:11] What we’ll do this week? Yes.
Rachael Herron: [00:29:12] Firmly masked. Yes. All right. What is the best book that you have read recently? The best book that I have read recently is The Push by Ashley Audrey. So what about you?
Ashley Audrain: [00:29:22] Thank you. It means a lot. So, okay, so there’s, there’s a few. And I know you probably can only pick one.
Rachael Herron: [00:29:29] No you can tell us about as many as you want
Ashley Audrain: [00:29:31] Okay. So the best recently. And I’ll only kind of go into detail on one, but I really loved Leave the World Behind by Romaan Alam. I don’t know if you’ve read that.
Rachael Herron: [00:29:38] I haven’t heard of it. No.
Ashley Audrain: [00:29:39] It is really good. I feel like it was the book that really like, just, I mean, really got me back into being like, we were all kind of in a slump and that one really,
Rachael Herron: [00:29:51] What’s the genre?
Ashley Audrain: [00:29:52] It’s like literary fiction. But, I think, you know, I hope people aren’t scared off because there’s a bit of a like, not dystopian, but kind of like a bit of an angle where there’s something very strange happening in the world and you don’t know what it is but that’s not at all what the book’s about. So, so I’ll tell you a bit of it, but so the book is basically about this family who goes on vacation and like upstate New York and this like really nice rental place they get on like Airbnb and in the middle of the night, they get a knock on the door and they answer it. And it’s an older, black couple, very wealthy black couple. And they introduce themselves as the owner of the rental and say, we need to stay here. Like you need to take us in and will you let us just hide out here with you because there’s something going on in Manhattan and we don’t know what it is and we’ve lost our cell service. And so it’s this really kind of creepy sort of the premise, and so of course they say, you know, they’re reluctant, but they invite them in. And then the book is less about kind of, you know, they’re all losing cell service. The TV doesn’t work, like something’s happening, but the book is less about what’s happening and more about like how we cope with fear and uncertainty. Like what do you do in a situation like that? And then there’s, you know, this dynamics of class and race, and it’s really good.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:01] And it’s called Leave the World Behind?
Ashley Audrain: [00:31:03] Leave the World Behind by Romaan Alam.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:05] Fantastic
Ashley Audrain: [00:31:06] I loved Luster by Raven, Raven Lielani I don’t know.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:10] I’ve heard so much about it, but yeah, it’s on my list
Ashley Audrain: [00:31:13] the, but the book I will talk more about is, The Heartbeat by Megan Hunter. And I feel like you probably haven’t heard of it.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:21] No
Ashley Audrain: [00:31:22] She’s a UK writer and maybe it’s bigger than the UK, but it’s so good. And I hope more people pick it up here. It’s about a woman who discovers her husband is having an affair and her husband agrees to let her hurt him three times. No questions asked and for revenge. And it’s such a great, again, such a great premise.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:40] Such a great premise.
Ashley Audrain: [00:31:41] Yeah. And the book is basically about, you know, retribution and revenge and marriage.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:46] That sounds so fun
Ashley Audrain: [00:31:47] It’s really good. It’s really, really good. Yeah. I highly recommend it. I like raced through it. It’s not that long. But it’s just a great portrait of like, you know, domestic life and motherhood and marriag,e and it’s sort of the other storyline is her lifelong obsession with harpies, like the mythological creature of you know, a woman’s face and bird wings. It sounds like it was the myth
Rachael Herron: [00:32:09] It sounds like it’s written for me. Speaking of books, you do a really, really beautiful job of creating that, that relationship showing what a marriage is like on a daily basis, you know, and how that, how that moves. Well, let’s bring it back to you. Will you give us your log line for this book and tell us where we can find you online?
Ashley Audrain: [00:32:28] Oh, yes, for sure yes, also, so where you can find the book. So, you said tell me where to find me online?
Rachael Herron: [00:32:36] Yeah, where to find you, where to find the book, where to find that and a little bit about the book. Yeah.
Ashley Audrain: [00:32:39] Okay, oh about the book. Sure. So it’s really about the expectations of motherhood. It’s about a woman who you know, comes from a long line of women who have struggled greatly with motherhood, and she’s determined to break the cycle. She’s determined to be the kind of mom she always wanted to have. And she has a baby Violet, and with her husband Fox and quickly realizes that there’s something wrong with Violet and she is, you know, aloof and distance and malicious towards other children. And the problem of course, is that her husband cannot see what she sees and thinks that this is all in Blake’s head. And so they are, you know, marriage and their families sort of unravels from there and that’s, that’s sort of the premise
Rachael Herron: [00:33:20] Ooh, good way to put it. And I have to say, I love the, girl’s name. I just my Book Hush, Little Baby is coming out in I think May. And the baby’s name is Violet
Ashley Audrain: [00:33:29] Oh really? Oh, funny we both have Violet. We both have a little baby Violet. That’s good. That’s a good name. I’ll look forward to yours. That’s good.
Rachael Herron: [00:33:37] And where can we find you?
Ashley Audrain: [00:33:38] And you can find me at Twitter on, @Audrain and Instagram at AshleyAudrain. And I have a website, AshleyAudrain.com that has events and that sort of things coming up. So
Rachael Herron: [00:33:50] Thank you, so, so, so much for being here, I was just thrilled to get to talk to you. I’m thrilled about the Good Morning America, every all of it. I want to watch your continued success and rise, and I can’t wait to grab your next to it too.
Ashley Audrain: [00:34:02] Oh, Rachael, thank you so much. I look forward to your book in May, too.
Rachael Herron: [00:34:05] You’re welcome
Ashley Audrain: [00:34:06] Yes. Thank you.
Rachael Herron: [00:34:07] Thank you so much and good luck with everything. Okay. Take care.
Ashley Audrain: [00:34:09] Thanks Rachel. Okay, bye.
Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/
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