Ep. 211: How to Write Dialogue for Characters Very Unlike Yourself

In this mini-episode, Rachael Herron answers how to write dialogue for characters who aren’t like you at all, as well as how to breathe life into an old, almost-dead book, and what the heck is the difference between a collection of essays and a non-chronological memoir? 

How Do You Write Podcast: Explore the processes of working writers with bestselling author Rachael Herron. Want tips on how to write the book you long to finish? Here you’ll gain insight from other writers on how to get in the chair, tricks to stay in it, and inspiration to get your own words flowing. 

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Transcript

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron, and this is a bonus episode brought to you directly by my $5 Patreons. If you’d like me to be your mini coach for less than a large mocha Frappuccino, you can join too at www.patreon.com/rachael

[00:00:14] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode #211 of “How do you Write?” Today is a mini episode where I answer the questions that you send me. I am your mini coach and I will answer anything that you want. Just become a member of my Patreon at the $5 a month and up level, and you get access to that. So I would like to say a heartfelt and heady and grateful, thanks to everyone on my Patreon, who are my patrons at every single level. You really make the difference in my life of me being able to sit down and do this podcast and to write these essays. I am about to send one out to this morning on, the bra theory of getting your work done. And it is not just for a sis female folk who might or might not wear bras. So doesn’t that peak your interest on you want to read that essay? You could read it for a dollar a month or pay $5 a month and get me to answer some of your questions, which is what I’m going to do right now.

[00:01:19] So, Allen asks here goes, this is a first question from Allen. Allen, thank you very much. As a fairly laid back and sometimes quite taciturn person, that’s a good combination. I like it. Laid back and taciturn. I just had to think about that. Okay. That’s a fairly laid back and sometimes quite taciturn person, I find it difficult to write dialogue for more gregarious, outgoing characters. How do you write for characters whose instincts differ dramatically from your own and still have them sound natural? So it is a fantastic question and it is something that I think writers on the whole generally struggle with this idea of how to make character voices sound distinct and unique, especially when they are not in our own natural voice. So I have been thinking about voice a lot in the last week or two, just as some students have asked me some questions and it strikes me that, are, as I’ve said often before, our voice is our voice, when it comes to writing, you will never be able to hear it. It is like your accent. Everyone else can hear your accent, but you can’t. You kind of have to be told what your voice in writing is because it’s like the fish who lives in water, but doesn’t know that water exists because they are in the water, our brains are always talking to us in our own particular voice language. So when we put our own words down on the page, when we put dialogue down on the page, it is automatically what is just in our brains all the time. And for that reason, it can read as boring or dull or all the same, and we’re not being different enough.

[00:03:07] And that is worrisome. So I understand that feeling, but I don’t actually think it’s something we need to worry about it too much, because it is so easily fixed in revision. And you probably knew I would say that, but what I do with my books is I write them as the book falls out of my fingers and onto the page. And I make that sound like it is easy. It is not. A book never falls out of my fingers, but books do get typed pretty quickly by me and by a lot of other writers and we type it badly, we type it not well. Our books, no book ever comes out into a first draft without needing significant amounts of revision in order to be a good book in order to be publishable quality.

[00:03:53] So, my answer for this is I don’t worry about it. I, everybody in my first draft sounds the way I sound with my voice because I have- I don’t even know who these characters are a lot of times yet I’m learning about them. I might learn that this one might want to be more chatty than I normally am. This one might be more taciturn than I usually am and I don’t worry about it. Once the first draft is done is when I start thinking about, well, sometimes it’s after the second draft, honestly, I usually make this into a pass of my own work is differentiating dialogue and on a really logical level, and Allen you’ve, you’ve shown this is we were able to ask ourselves logically using the logical, rational, revision brain we were able to ask ourselves, what does this character need to sound like? And what do they sound like now? And we can answer that question because we are good at reading we can say this character sounds just like all the other characters, but I want her to sound more gregarious, more chatter boxy. And then that becomes a pass where you can just go through your book, look just at Gloria’s dialogue and make Gloria’s dialogue more chatty than it came out in that first draft or make Diana’s dialogue more taciturn, more quiet shorter sentences, or give this person longer sentences.

[00:05:21] It is such an easy thing to fix in revision that I never worry about it upfront. So if you are struggling with that, make yourself a note that that’s going to be one of your passes is a dialogue pass to make sure that your characters sound the way that they want, that you want them to. One thing that I find very useful when I’m thinking about characters’ voices, and I’m talking about characters who are not my main point of view character, for the most part, although this does apply to those two, is think about what they do. Think about how they see the world. If she is a baker, she’s going to see the world in terms of flavor and measurements and really using words that apply to her as a baker, same thing with the sailor, same thing with a tax accountant that does inform who our characters are and if you push it a little further, it’s fun to play with those ideas.

[00:06:17] A tax accountant, of course, we would think they’d be buttoned up and tight and very precise and know where all the bodies are buried at all times, but what if this particular tax accountant is different and he loves numbers, he loves what he does. Right, he hates what he does. But in this part of his life over here, he is sloppier or messier or more hands off play with I think I’ve gone from voice into actual building of characters who are not our main characters, our main characters, demand rigorous exploration and rigorous thought about their character arc, the smaller characters that are moving around the board. I really have a good time playing with how they might fit into their own trope or how they might break out of it, how I can play with their language and their dialogue later, after the first draft, every once in a while, I will get a character who comes to me with their own voice. And that is always a gift. And I would say it happens one book in 10 for me. So when it does, I really, really enjoy it. So, I hope that that helped Allen. In other words, don’t worry about it until you’re in revision and then it will be easy to fix. That’s one of those easy to fix things. 

[00:07:34] All right, this is from Maggie. Hello, Maggie, sending you lots of love. Maggie, these are personal questions, but hopefully relatable. Number one, when you’ve ditched a whole novel you finished about a year ago because it has so many problems, but now want to jump in and salvage the basic book characters and about 20% of the writing, what would your approach be?

[00:07:58] Okay. So I have done this and I have seen students do this too. I, I do it exactly the same way I approach a major revision and I believe the revision episode for this, the kind of the way I do revision, I believe it’s episode 108 of “How Do You Write?” You can listen to everything I believe about revision. What it comes down to for me is making that sentence outline of what’s in the book and then I use story structure to kind of re-outline what I want the book to be. And then if it is this big, affects, I kind of just start a brand new document and I bring in very little, I just kind of start rewriting the book. And I know that’s painful to hear that is, but you know, what you have said is that you might want to save 20% of the books. So, 80% of that is first draft. Tell yourself, oh, I know it’s painful. Tell yourself that this is a 100% first draft rewrite of this book. That’s the only thing that worked for me to salvage the book that I salvaged. I just started rewriting it every once in a while. I would go dip into the book because I knew where everything was. I had done my sentence outline I knew what was in that old book. And I could go in and grab out a paragraph or two, I honestly grabbed A lot fewer words than I thought I would, because as I wrote the book was changing all the time, so I couldn’t save all the words I thought I could, but I do treat it like a normal revision. And I go in, start with that first scene. Is it the way I want it to be? If not, write a new first draft of the first scene, keeping in mind that all of these things can change later, not holding on too tight. Sometimes when we do this kind of major, major, major, major revision we do get set in our head that this is a revision. So therefore I should be making things better. I think in this kind of major revision, it is better to have beginner’s mind, first draft mind, where you’re just doing a crappy job. You’re doing a crappy job and you’ll fix it later in revision. And that kind of gives you the freedom, the hands-off, the ability to let go and just kind of lean into this first drafting process of the play and the fun and the weirdness and how nothing fits together yet accepting all that and moving forward, I think might be really, really helpful. 

[00:10:17] Number two question from Maggie, a different book, advice on revising the first 10 to 20 pages when you realize the tone and pace is quite different than the rest of the book, the voice is the same. I wrote it that way to set how oppressive her, her normal life is. So there is market change by the end, but now it feels like a barrier for people to get past those first pages, which can be so important for readers/agents, et cetera. As always thank you, as always Maggie, you are welcome. I think that’s a really good and interesting question. So it is important in our books to set up the status quo. We need to see our characters in their normal life and their status quo for a while. Because we need to establish empathy for them, connection, and understanding the reader needs to understand what they’re in before the inciting incident happens at which point they decide to do something different and enter a new world. So we do need to see them in their old world in order for that to mean something to the reader. Knowing that, they could be in this really awkward, uncomfortable beginning place. There’s a couple of ways to ensure that this doesn’t bog down the reader too much and it both, both methods come down to wedding the readers’ appetite. First off you could have a very quick prologue. I, you know, a page or two, which shows your main character at a critical, interesting point in her future that you’re going to get to in the book, that shows that particular how did you put it a particular tone and pace of the rest of the book to tell it was basically guarantees the reader.

[00:12:04] Look, I’m going to get to this tone and pace. We’ve got to go backwards a few steps, see our character in her status quo life. And then I’m going to get you there. Or, you can do that in a smaller way by showing your character inside that tone and pace of the rest of the book. Just for a little bit maybe as something arises, some kind of situation, which requires action in this hook at the beginning of the book show her acting that way. And again, it’s this tacit unspoken promise that you’re making to the reader. Like I’m going to come back to them and we’re going to get there I think you’re being very smart to think about it, but I also think that’s not a but, I think you’re being very smart to think about it. And I also believe that readers, even when they’re unable to explain this out loud, which is most of the time readers who are readers don’t understand this stuff, they just know what they like they understand that this is status quo and that this person is going to change. So they do, they can kind of lean into, Oh, this sucks, right? This sucks where this character is. I wonder how she’s going to get out of it. So you have a little leeway and some play there, which will allow the reader to keep reading. So, what I’m saying is I’m glad you’re thinking about it and don’t worry about it too, too much so hope about hopes. 

[00:13:30] And our last question is from Thoumas, Hello Thoumas. He says, what exactly is the difference between a collection of personal essays and a theme-based memoir that isn’t chronological? When I think about someone like David Sedaris, I can’t see any difference between his essays and what’s generally considered memoir. Do personal essays tend to be more cerebral or philosophical? A follow up question, am I right in assuming that if the book cover of an unknown author says essays instead of memoir, it will most probably sell less. I have a hunch that most people perceive essays to be heady and dry, but maybe I’m wrong. Thanks again. Okay, so great question. Essays have to be able to stand alone. An essay is something that you could pull out of a collection of essays, publish in a magazine. And no one would say, but what happens next? But what about his father? What about, you know, what about these loops that he opened? Every loop that you open inside an essay needs to be closed inside that essay, for the most part, there are of course exceptions to every rule. So your question is about collection of personal essays and a theme-based memoir that isn’t chronological.

[00:14:47] So theme-based memoir that isn’t chronological is still telling a story and all of those scenes do not have to stand alone. Every scene in the book does not have to have a beginning and a middle and an end. You can tell you can, you can show a scene that perhaps prove something but doesn’t resolve them at something you could show a scene that opened more questions, that it answers and move around within this memoir that way. It is implied that in a memoir like that, we are going to see a character arc progression through the course of a memoir and the main character. The “I” character will have changed by the end, that has to have happened in a collection of essays that doesn’t have to have happened. Normally the change in the character occurs within the essay itself. That said, there are collections of essays that are theme based and when we arrange them inside a book, we do want to think about story structure. So even though, these essays stand-alone completely, perhaps they’re all looking at the same theme of somebody’s life perhaps or not. But at that midpoint in the collection of essays, we want a large decision. We want a large discovery revelation, something that moves our character into making a decision, something that gives them more information that they have than they had before, because readers as a whole, again, don’t know that they expect this, but we all expect something to change at the middle at the midpoint, is context shifting midpoint. And if an essay just happens to be at the beginning- of the middle of the book that shows a large change in that main character, it’s the perfect placement. At about the 70 to 80% mark of a collection of essays, we really want that to be the darkest essay. The essay in which it was the worst time where everything was lost because the human brain is used to the three X structure, or as I teach it the four X structure, but it is still the strict three X structure. And we are used to having the dark moment the dark night of the soul right there. And that’s where we want it.

[00:17:07] That’s where it feels good and then we have this kind of space at the end to resolve and those are perhaps a lighter essay or essays that show the growth has manifested by the end of this collection of essays. So, I’d say as much standalone, a theme-based memoir that is not chronological, nothing has to be resolved within each chapter or scene. You will often see collections of essays that I think could be stronger because they weren’t put into story structure order. I get frustrated with those personally, I buy a lot of collections of essays. I, I would say that I think that that might be your lens that you’re using, and that people perceive essays to be heavy and dry, because there has been this explosion of extremely humorous essays that are sold in collections by the millions, you know, Samantha Irby and Roxane Gaye is coming to mind, although she’s not hilarious, but these essays standalone could be published in a magazine, they’re collected into a book. And sometimes I get frustrated reading these because I get the emotional punch, the emotional punch, the emotional punch of the next one, but I’m not getting the feeling in the places that I’m expecting. So sometimes I just put them aside. I love Samantha Irby. I think she’s one of the funniest writers writing today.

[00:18:33] And I couldn’t get through her most recent collection because nothing was dragging me through when I would finish an essay, Ooh, I feel good. I could put the book down, haven’t picked it up again. I think I’m three or four essays in. So, you know, obviously I’ve got to get that more of a chance and I love her work. But it is, we’re thinking about structure even when we’re talking about collections of personal essays and what I’m saying is I think that people nowadays do have more of a space in their heart to pick up essays because they are not expecting them all to be dry and theoretical in tone. So, your mileage may vary and Thoumas, what I know about your memoir is it’s probably going to work really well in that theme-based non chronological memoir way. And if you happen to throw in some chapters that would stand alone, that would be pull outable into a magazine, great! You can publish those too, you know, self- first serial rights or whatever it is that you want to do with those and I hope that helps. I always feel like I sometimes open more questions with these questions than I answer.

[00:19:40] And anyone can always ask me, what did you mean when you said that? And I’m happy to answer those questions. I’m happy to answer any questions honestly. So, thank you for listening to the mini podcast Q&A great questions y’all and I wish all of you, very, very, very happy writing. 

Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.