Ep. 189: Steven Rowley on When You Get To Call Yourself A Writer

Steven Rowley is the author of The Editor and the national bestseller Lily and the Octopus, which has been translated into nineteen languages. He has worked as a freelance writer, newspaper columnist, and screenwriter. Originally from Portland, Maine, Rowley is a graduate of Emerson College. He lives in Palm Springs, CA.

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Transcript

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:15] Well, hello writers! Welcome to episode #189 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. So pleased that you’re here with me. Today, I got to talk to the awesome Stephen Rowley whose book, The Editor, I just love and I kind of fan girl a little bit, which is one of those wonderful things to be able to do, if you have a show like this, and if you like books, and you like talking to authors, it’s kind of hard not to. So it was a real joy to talk to him and he is a delight. I know you’re going to enjoy that part of the show. 

[00:00:55] A very quick catch up around here because I am revising my little fingers off and I’m seriously just taking like a five-minute break to record this and get back to it. Everything has been going well, enjoying revising. It is not heavy lifting this time. It’s got just the right amount of thought that I need, like, I kinda got to go deep for a minute and then I can paddle around and words that I’m already really proud of and that belong. So, this is one of my favorite parts of writing. I think I say that a lot. My wife always laughs at me because I have many best friends, but they’re all my best friend and I have many favorite plates and favorite animals. I believe we can have lots of favorite things. And apparently I like a lot of the writing process. So this week I got to speak to the Jericho Writers’ Conference in England about revision, and that was so much fun. If any of you are here listening to the show for the first time, thank you for having me. My chair has got some creeks to work out I can hear today. So that was great. That was yesterday and the only other really big news in my life since we last talked is, we have air conditioning. It may have been being put in the last time I talked, but we have it now. I was really sad actually, after we got it, because it just didn’t seem to be cooling down our house. And I thought, well, that’s ridiculous. We spent all this money and we have a new, big, I don’t know what it’s called the compressor or something out on a concrete pad in the driveway. And it- it’s was sending cold air out of the vent, but it really wasn’t cooling down the house. It was a little tiny bit cooler, but the house would still continue to heat in the afternoon. And I finally emailed the, the guy who installed it a couple days ago and I said, is this normal, should this actually cool down our 1000 square foot house? And he said, what is your filter look like? And so I looked at the filter. I don’t think we’ve changed that filter in years. It was, and we have four animals. It was disgusting. I constantly confronted with the way that I am failing to adult. And that was one of ‘em, so I went over to the ACE hardware, bought myself a new filter and all afternoon, cool air has been coming in and then turning off because the house cools down. For the first couple of days that we had the AC, it ran all the time. And then I would just turn it off in frustration and open the windows because at night it gets cooler outside here and I would let the air in, but now it works. And I’m such a happy person that I can sit in my office. And it’s a temperate 75. It’s like 85 outside and it always heats up more in the house. So it would have been like 87 in my office right now. And it isn’t, and I’m so happy even though right now I’ve had a bunch of sugar in my face, just went very red and I’m very hot. That just happens. I cannot stop that. Revision means sugar. So I’m back on the sugar train, I will kick it again in a couple of weeks. No worries. 

[00:03:58] Thanks to new patrons at Elizabeth Dum- Dumpy. Thank you, Elizabeth. So much. I just mangled your name. Elizabeth Dunphy. It’s a very pretty name. Thank you so much. And Abby Stoddard. Thank you. Thank you, Abby. I have accidentally written two books where the main character was named Abby, one was Abby. One was Abigail. They were both called Abby. And I didn’t realize I had done it until this second book was literally published. I was heading into love song and then seven books later pack up the moon. Oops, love your name too. Thank you everyone who is supporting on Patreon. I know that these times are hard and if you need to dial back on your pledge or cancel your pledge, I will love you always forever. Don’t worry about that. You need to take care of you. But please know that everyone who does support me on Patreon, you really allow me to sit in this chair and to write these essays that I love writing and to do this show that I love doing. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I’m going to get back into revision now. And I wish you all very happy writing, please come tell me how your own writing is going. Please sign up for my email newsletter if you’re not on it because I really do write back to every email I get and I love discussing writing with all of you. So enjoy the interview with Steven and we will talk soon. 

[00:00:55] This episode is brought to you by my book, Fast Draft Your Memoir, write your life story in 45 hours, which is by the way, totally doable and I tell you how. It’s the same class I teach in the continuing studies program at Stanford each year. And I’ll let you in on it secret, even if you have no interest in writing a memoir yet, the book has everything I’ve ever learned about the process of writing and of revision, and of story structure, and I’m just doing this thing. That’s so hard and yet all we want to do pick it up today. 

Rachael Herron: [00:05:53] Well, I could not be more pleased today to welcome to the show. Steven Rowley. Hello, Steven!

Steven Rowley: [00:05:57] Hi, I’m so happy to be here. 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:00] I’m thrilled to talk to you about your writing process and about this particular book. Let me give a little introduction for those who might not know you. Steven Rowley is the author of The Editor and the national bestseller Lily and the Octopus, which has been translated into 19 languages. He has worked as a freelance writer, newspaper columnist, and screenwriter. Originally from Portland, Maine, Rowley is a graduate of Emerson college. He lives in Palm Springs, California. That’s a large jump from Portland, Maine. That’s 

Steven Rowley: [00:06:28] It is a little hop, skip, and a jump for sure. Yeah. 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:32] Yeah. You’re missing a bunch of snow. 

Steven Rowley: [00:06:35] Well, I, I, you know, I love Maine. It’s always, you know, going to be considered my home, but I had enough snow for, for a lifetime growing up there. And I don’t know, there was something about the desert that ultimately was what’s calling today.

Rachael Herron: [00:06:50] See, I was born in the desert, but I keep trying to talk my wife literally into moving to Portland, Maine. So, yeah. 

Steven Rowley: [00:06:58] It’s a great town, and, you know, I go back there now and I think, you know, why was I in such a hurry, run away from it because, but you know, it was a combination of being 18 and also I’ve grown up a lot in the city. The city has grown in tremendous ways. It’s got an incredible restaurant scene, culture theater although I miss, I miss live performance, I know all about art. Portland’s an incredibly beautiful and thriving city. 

Rachael Herron: [00:07:25] It’s funny that I wanted to move there and I haven’t been, but that’s another thing why I keep saying maybe we should visit,

Steven Rowley: [00:07:30] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:07:31] No time soon. 

Steven Rowley: [00:07:32] I really highly recommend.

Rachael Herron: [00:07:33] Speaking of everything that’s going on, how are you doing in this moment? 

Steven Rowley: [00:07:37] We’re holding up, well, I am here in Palm Springs with my partner Byron Lane, who is also a novelist

Rachael Herron: [00:07:45] I know his name. And I’m wondering if I’ve read him. 

Steven Rowley: [00:07:48] Not yet his, his debut is called The Star is Bored and it comes out July 28th. So people can look for that as well. But he’s been undergoing chemotherapy. So it’s been, prognosis is very good. In fact, his last day of chemo was Friday, 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:02] Good

Steven Rowley: [00:07:03] but undergoing that, and caring for someone going through that during, with a global pandemic as a backdrop is a perhaps stressful, but we’re, we’re making it through. 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:14] It’s, it’s so incredible. And that you’ve got to deal with taking care of him and making sure that none of the germs get in. Have you found that your house is like half the size, you thought it was? That’s what we have learned. We thought we had enough room

Steven Rowley: [00:08:28] Yeah. A lot of space. No, I will say though, our house has never been cleaner. That’s good. 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:36] See, that’s the opposite here we have a house cleaner, so our house has never been dirty.

Steven Rowley: [00:08:38] Yeah. Yeah. It’s just, it’s just you know, trying to keep, trying the extra steps that we take to try to keep the germs out. 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:48] Yeah. And both of you releasing a book, so

Steven Rowley: [00:08:50] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:08:51] Oh, still together. That is super, super exciting. But let’s talk about for you right now and how, my question is usually what’s your writing process? What does it usually look like? but also feel free to answer what it looks like right now in this moment too.

Steven Rowley: [00:09:10] I feel so grateful right now to have a job that allows me to escape into other, other worlds and other times. I, I really think that as a, as something to help mentally help me get through these times that that’s very fortunate. You know, I can sit down on a desk and almost travel to someplace where all of this isn’t, isn’t happening, even though I don’t leave my home. And I’ve never been more grateful for my job than I am right now. I’ve also been strangely productive and this is not, not a knock against anyone who is having trouble creating in this time. And in fact, this is incredibly difficult time to feel creative. But me, my biggest obstacle in writing has always been a FOMO. You know, that sort of fear of fear of missing out on what everyone else is doing. Particularly when you work at home and novel writing is such a solitary occupation, you know, my biggest fear was always, you know, wait, wait, wait, what’s everybody else doing? You know, like what are people having fun? And, you know, the answer right now is people aren’t doing a damn thing. So, you know, the world has kind of brown to a halt. And so it’s allowed me to sort of let go of that fear as it were, and, and really embraced getting work done. Now. Having said that, I sort of finished the projects that were on my desk and I’m, I’m finding, starting something new, it’s incredibly daunting against the backdrop of, of these times. You know, not just COVID, but everything that’s going on right now, as, as we think about what we want our country to look like and our world to look like and building a more, just fair, you know, a place to live for, for us all the lag time between, you know, sitting down to write a book and what it might be come out and hit shelves can be three, four, five years. So when you, when thinking about starting a project and there are important things to say right now, but what is it that you want to say about this rapidly changing world and how can you have a little bit of foresight into what the world will be when that book hits the shelf. I find that to be, you know, quite daunting. So we’ll see, 

Rachael Herron: [00:11:30] How are you-

Steven Rowley: [00:11:31] we’ll see if this productivity grinds to a halt. 

Rachael Herron: [00:11:34] How are you answering that? Because I’m finding the same thing. My last book was a thriller about, corruption within the policing industry. So that was good all time. But the one I’m writing right now is about fetal abduction. It’s just a straight up thriller pregnant lady being stuck, and you know, like, and I’m, I’m really struggling with that, what does this book mean in the world? I know it will help somebody pass the time and that is important to me. But, but how do you, how are you addressing that? 

Steven Rowley: [00:12:04] Yeah, I think I, you know, this is an ongoing process, so I don’t have- forgive me over the, the answer is not fully articulated, but, you know, I tried to strip it back and think about what fiction means to me as a reader and, and I keep coming back to connection and there is something about the importance of sharing stories and kids human stories to sort of remind us that even though we may be isolated in this moment or, or sheltering at home, or, or not being able to be with our loved ones that there are, there are many stories that we can tell that, that even though the plot of those stories, don’t address this, this moment in time. If we can sort of write the emotional truth of what, what this feels like in his time and find a story, that you could sort of lay that over. I think that’s where the answer is going to lie 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:05] Gorgeous, and it’s such a good answer and it just made me feel so much better. And I want to say about your book, The Editor, which I just loved. I devoured it over the weekend because I am plunging. I’m sober. So I have nothing to distract me from. I have punched so much deeper into books, right. And these last few months, and I was always deep into them, but, you do this incredible job of really, exploring the emotional connection of a son and his mother in a meadow way. That the, the novelist, the, you know, the character is a novelist writing a book about his mother and, and the way you were able to do that, to draw the emotional connections out and, and not tire until the emotional resonance was found was really deep and really rich to me. And my, my favorite kind of book is a mother, mother-child stories. So, thank you for that. 

Steven Rowley: [00:14:00] Yeah there are many, many more mother-daughter stories that this is, 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:11] There are

Steven Rowley: [00:14:00] This is a true mother-son love story and you know, at its heart, it has, it has a fun hook for those 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:13] Oh, please tell ahead. Now. I don’t read blurbs. I don’t read anything. I just have somebody say, you know, let’s get them on your show. I’ll read the book. So I did not see it coming. 

Steven Rowley: [00:14:27] Oh, fantastic. As an artist, I really wish that’s how everyone could experience now. I would not win that fight with my publisher and the marketing department, you know, in a million years, I’m not gonna win that fight, but it’s fun to talk to someone who is able to sort of go in blind. But the book takes place in early 1990s, New York. And our narrator is a young, writer sort of armed with a candidly autobiographical, manuscript. He’d written about his relationship with his mother and the editor that acquires the book for publication and the eponymous editor is none other than Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, who was at the time, perhaps the most famous book editor, for those who, who may not remember, or weren’t really aware of this, she had this incredible 15-year career as an editor first at Viking Press and then a double day which has spent the bulk of her career. She- 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:26] I did not know any of this. In fact, it was one of the wonderful moments-

Steven Rowley: [00:15:29] Yeah. Yeah. It’s truly fascinating

Rachael Herron: [00:15:30] I put the book down. I’m like, this cannot be true. Is this science fiction? 

Steven Rowley: [00:15:29] You actually google 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:30] And I was Googling and the Wiki came up in 15 years as an editor. She, in fact, I believe it was in the Wiki, not your book, but, there were still manuscripts in her apartment when she died, she was still working. It’s incredible 

Steven Rowley: [00:15:49] Yeah. She worked right up until, until her passing in 1994. Yeah, she had sublimated so much of her own life to these two marriages, you know, to be very powerful men and it wasn’t until, her second husband Onassis, Aristotle Onassis died that she sort of put her head down, and went to work and I think people were very skeptical of her at first or assume she was some sort of you know, vanity hire or, or assume that she was hired for her role at decks that perhaps the publisher wanted to access to many people who could, who could write books, and thought she would be a way to reel them in, but she proved everybody wrong. She really did the nuts and bolts of editing. She did the hard work, you know, line editing, and what’s involved in every step of the process along the way. She was very interested in the way for books, books the quote right down to the, the weight of the paper and, you know, like the cover design and everything. And then you know, getting to learn more about that and, and really research that was one of the great joys in writing this. And unfortunately, I had a very, supportive editor myself and the great Sally Kim at Putnam and a, and a publisher who helped put me in touch with many of her former coworkers.

Rachael Herron: [00:17:10] Oh, wow. 

Steven Rowley: [00:17:11] And now, 25 years later, you know where people who are just starting out, but are now in very senior positions in publishing who were generous with their observations. And there’s great stories about, you know, her elbow deep in a photocopier clearing a paper jam, you know, to running down the hallway and stocking feet to make a, you know, on a deadline or something. And it’s just, it’s just the, just the fantasy of what it would have been like to work with her is incredibly fun to think about. 

Rachael Herron: [00:17:34] I have that image that really didn’t leave me where, I can’t remember who said it in the book, but basically, you know, we’re all dreaming of getting out of the office and onto the yacht. And she was actually dreaming about getting off the yacht and into the office and she remained there until she died basically and, but, but you know, she’s, she’s your hook and she’s an incredible person in the book, but I just really loved our narrator too. I, I just loved being with him and his relationship and the, Oh, it was just, it was so real and so good. When you are writing, just to get into the next question that I have here. What is your- cause when I’m reading a book that is completely done and polished and perfect, when I’m working on a revision of my book, as I am, you know, it’s always like, Oh God, I could never be a writer again. I’m never going to write a book again because it’s so perfect. What is your biggest challenge when it comes to writing? 

Steven Rowley: [00:18:30] It’s actually getting my butt in the chair. 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:34] Easier with coronavirus. 

Steven Rowley: [00:18:36] Yeah, yeah. Usually, that’s the problem now and I’ve got no place else to go. So yeah, I know I’m banking work now because I know I’m going to want to be out in the world when we can all, we can do that again, but that’s, you know, writers are famous procrastinators. I’m also a very social person. I haven’t figured it out yet. I love to chat. So, it’s, it’s kind of ironic that I picked this sort of very quiet and solitary job. So I don’t think it’s, it’s showing up to do the work. Once I’m, once I’m going, you know, we all have you know, have to come up with little tricks sometimes because just to jumpstart, you know, like once it’s flowing, it’s flowing, but you know, it’s a daunting feeling to try to figure out how to, how to jumpstart that each day.

Rachael Herron: [00:19:28] What are some of your jumpstart tricks that you pull out?

Steven Rowley: [00:19:30] You know, it’s different than, you know, often it’s just as simple as getting a running start. So that, and I mean that in several different ways, it could be going back and reading the previous day’s work just to, just to sort of ramp up to where you left off. It can be writing some emails, doing some other kinds of writing correspondence or, you know, even making lists of things that I have to get done. So I don’t, so I can feel like I can download that and not stressed about that while I’m working, then I won’t forget. I made a list. So that can be, that can be very helpful. I think the biggest lesson I learned is not to punish yourself. For instance, I know when I sit down at the computer, it’s very hard for me to just dive right in. So I might check my email. I might look at Twitter. I might read the headlines, although I don’t advise that for different reasons, but, but so understanding, but that’s part of the process and not, not punishing myself for way for wasting the first 30 or 40 minutes that I sit down and not having accomplished anything, because what used to happen is I would be so mad at myself that then I would sit there and stew for another 30 or 40, and then I’ve doubled the time that I lost. But if you understand that that’s part of the process and you allow for that and build in time for that. Then you don’t then, then there’s no reason to feel bad about it 

Rachael Herron: [00:21:01] It’s how you get there. That’s what I love about doing this yeah. Is talking about people’s different processes and how they sneak up on writing. I don’t think anybody just takes off their clothes every morning and pushes himself up against all the words in the universe. We don’t want to do that. We want, we need a little bit more gentle. What is your biggest joy when it comes to the writing process? 

Steven Rowley: [00:21:23] Oh, goodness. I think, you know, there’s the very famous, now I forget who said it but, the, the sort of having written, the feeling of having written, having written there’s no better feeling in the world, but like a really well-crafted sentence still, you know, it turns me on 

Rachael Herron: [00:21:42] Yeah, totally.

Steven Rowley: [00:21:435] When I do something that I’m proud of, but I hear things, lyrically or rhythmically sometimes. And the struggle is to get words on the page and the same sort of rhythm and the same beats that I hear them in my head. So that’s, sometimes when that happens, you know, sometimes it takes writing that sentence four or five times, but when I feel like, Oh, that clicks into something, that’s almost a poetry at least to me then, then that’s, that’s where real joy was.

Rachael Herron: [00:22:21] That’s lovely. Do you and Byron share work while it’s in progress? 

Steven Rowley: [00:22:25] Sometimes I would say, you know, it’s not like we don’t do a daily living with another writer. A lot of people think that would be hell. 

Rachael Herron: [00:22:34] I think it would be hell, yes. 

Steven Rowley: [00:22:35] Yeah, there, there are some advantages to it as well. For instance, you know, you’re in it, it’s hard to shut off sometimes, you know, just because it’s time to eat dinner or come together as a couple at the end of the day, it doesn’t mean that you can just lose everything that your brain is working on. And sometimes I need to sit there and think, still because I’m downloading what I’ve done for the day, or I’m trying to, trying to think ahead to the next day’s work. Not lose something important and to have a partner that understand, you know, that doesn’t, doesn’t get angry or take it personally when you’re not a hundred percent there you know, in front of them at the dinner table, like that, that, that helps. We definitely read each other’s work, not, not on a, you know, like chapter by chapter basis, but, you know, certainly, certainly he’s my first reader for, for a draft of something and vice versa but, but it’s nice to have someone to talk through, you know, we can bounce, like we do bounce ideas off each other along the way, or I’m really stuck on this and you think of a way you know, that’s helpful.

Rachael Herron: [00:23:43] So good. That’s so good. I actually, my wife is very good at that. She is an artist, not a writer, but she reads so much that she’s very good to bounce against, but yeah, that sounds so cool. You may have already done this, was sharing the, the, how you sneak up, get the running start, but can you share a craft tip of any sort with us?

Steven Rowley: [00:24:02] That’s a good, that’s a good question. Oh yeah. I, I would say, you know, I moved the systems are crafted so much, but one thing that I’ve learned that I would love to share, if I can just,

Rachael Herron: [00:24:17] Yes, please.

Steven Rowley: [00:24:18] If I can just do a parallel question, for years, you know, I published my, I was in my forties when I published my first novel and I’m still in my forties, but you know, it took years for me to, to get published and there were several manuscripts that I’d written along the way years, and, you know, and they sit on the shelf and, and I had a, you know, it’s only very recently in the last couple of years, that I have been able to make writing my full time profession. I always had to take off. And so when people ask me what I did, I always, don’t, you know, I’m a, I’m a writer, but, you know, and then I would, I would say what my day job was, and I was almost embarrassed. Thinking that, because the bulk of my financial income didn’t come from writing that I wasn’t a writer and I wish I could go back and tell a younger me that now, if you, if you write, if you are pursuing this then, and you’re passionate about it, it doesn’t matter if that’s where your income comes from or not. You are a writer. And I w- I want people to be able to say that with confidence and with pride. 

Rachael Herron: [00:25:27] Yes. I wish that more people would do that. I remember the very first time I ever said it at a party. I said, I’m a writer, even though, it was not my job. And the very next question was, are you published? And I was like, Oh God dammit. And you know your answer for that, then everyone who’s listening, who doesn’t know how to answer that. You just say very sweetly. Not yet. 

Steven Rowley: [00:25:47] Not yet. Not yet. Yeah, I wish we could train people. You know, there’s certain questions that you know are coming. I wish we could train a society to, to be a little more, gentle with their, you know, if your dog passed away, are you getting another dog? 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:01] Oh my god

Steven Rowley: [00:25:03] There are certain questions, it’s like, it shouldn’t be the first question. You know, like it’d be a little bit, perhaps a little more sensitive you know, more, more who’s like, Oh, what, what types of things are you working out?

Rachael Herron: [00:26:13] Absolutely right, yeah.

Steven Rowley: [00:25:14] That’s a, that’s perhaps a better, a better follow-up. But here everybody thinking, you know, 90, 95% of writers also, supplement their income through other, you know, other forms of writing through editing, teaching, working at Starbucks and I was like, you know, you know, incredible other jobs as well. So they’re, they’re certainly, shouldn’t be any hesitation just because you have some other job as well. 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:44] So that’s a challenge to listeners. The next time you were asked what you do if you ever go to a party again, your answer should be I’m a writer. Okay. This is, this is a good one for you. What thing in your life affects your writing in a surprising way? 

Steven Rowley: [00:27:04] Well certainly the answer for me there is having a dog you know, I think it’s I mentioned, you know, it’s a very solitary career. It’s also a very sedentary career and I have loved, you know, not only is it the book, that broke through for me, my, my first novel, Lily and the Octopus was, was in fact about a relationship I had with the dog but, we’re inspired by that relationship, but, you know, just the simple act of having another soul near you, another bar, you know, you, just sleeping, like not just seeing, you know, that chest rise and fall sometimes. It’s, it’s deeply comforting and it’s allowed me to continue working sometimes even when I felt very lonely. It’s also someone you can, you can have a conversation with. They may not talk back, but you can talk things through with them and they get you out of the chair every few hours to move around and honest to God, you know, I think this is obvious to most people who’ve written getting the blood flowing, you know, just moving your physical body every short while is really gonna help, you know, the blood flow to the brain and the quality of your work. And I never would have connected owning a dog to, to as to being integral to writing but for me it has been.

Rachael Herron: [00:28:26] I, I don’t think I’ve ever put such clear words on it. Yes. If I didn’t take my dog one, we have two dogs. I take one out in the morning and the other one is so old that basically the rest of every time I get up, I’m just putting another blanket on her, you know, even in the summer, that’s my full time job.

Steven Rowley: [00:28:41] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:28:42] Oh, okay. So what is the best book you’ve read recently? And why did you love it? 

Steven Rowley: [00:28:46] Oh, goodness. Well, just to keep the peace at home, my, my favorite is The Stars Are Bored by Byron Lane coming July 28th, but that’s a, that’s a cop out, 

Rachael Herron: [00:28:56] That’s a good title.

Steven Rowley: [00:28:57] You know, you know, I’m here to, to I’m talking about The Editor, which was released on paperback June 30th, but also in paperback on June 30th, the same day was Colson Whitehead’s, The Nickel Boys 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:10] I haven’t read that one.

Steven Rowley: [00:29:11] If you happen to miss that, because of the field service, but if you happen to miss that in hardcover, now’s a good time to check that out. But I also just read a book cause I love a family drama. I mean, that’s, that’s my bread and butter it’s what I love. And my new novel coming out next year is this sort of sibling, steroid, but there’s a book I just read called The Second Home by Christina Clancy, which is the story of three strange adult siblings who have to come together and decide the fate of their childhood vacation home and it’s really a fantastic summer read. 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:47] Thank you. I, that’s my jam too. I will immediately put that on my list along with Lily and the Octopus. Cause now I know that I love reading you and it’s about a dog in some way. I mean. 

Steven Rowley: [00:29:56] It’s about a dog. Yes.

Rachael Herron: [00:29:59] So you’ve told us about, The Editor, where can we find you? Where can we find it? Also, just from me to you. I have a book going to paper in August and I’ve never gone from hard covered to paper back. I’ve always been in paperback first how have you found the release of that during all of this? Just doing a lot of this kind of thing? 

Steven Rowley: [00:30:17] So I, the paperback has a brand new cover. 

Rachael Herron: [00:30:21] It’s gorgeous

Steven Rowley: [00:30:22] A different color hardcover, which is really beautiful and one thing that I found so interesting as I’m thinking about covers differently right now, and I don’t know if your book has the same cover as the hardcover,

Rachael Herron: [00:30:31] Different. They changed it.

Steven Rowley: [00:30:33] or not yet. Yeah. But one thing to keep in mind now, when, when bookstores aren’t necessarily open for us for browsing, many are open for curbside pickup, or if you know what you want, you get it. But some stores eliminate or schedule browsing, but we’re not free to just get lost in a bookstore and the way we were right then or used to be. And so we have to think about covers a little bit differently because we’re doing a lot of our book buying online and so like, what is that? And, and a lot of book marketing has shifted to, to Instagram bookstagramers, or so, you know, such an integral part of the publishing community now, you know, Instagram, Facebook, all this stuff. So what does the cover look like, you know, in a thumbnail size online? Do these colors really pop? It’s very interesting, it’s very interesting to think about, but it’s also very exciting, cause I think, you know, it’s hard to break through the noise. Sometimes there are a lot of titles out there and just the idea that there’s a new edition coming out and that might attract new readers that that maybe missed it the first time around it’s, you know, it feels very excited. So,

Rachael Herron: [00:31:37] I, I feel like my cover, my new cover is good, but I feel like your new cover is great, like, it just pops off the page. And when I did find out that it was Jackie O I was like, Oh, that’s. Okay. Now I can, now I can see what’s going on here. Cause it did give me that, but it was very subtle. It was not necessarily Jackie O on the cover. Fabulous. Okay so where can I find-

Steven Rowley: [00:32:00] To hit you over the head with it. 

Rachael Herron: [00:32:01] Where can we find you?

Steven Rowley: [00:32:02] So I’ve got at the back of the paperback running when it wants to pick up the paper back, there are two sample chapters. For my new novel, which will be out next spring, God willing, we’re all still here. That’s part of the, the paperback is the opportunity to have some supplemental material. This is a good booklet questions and then a sneak peek at what comes in. So people can find me I’m on all social media @ Mr. Steven, S T E V E N, Rowley, R O W L E Y. So find me Instagram (mrstevenrowley), Twitter (mrstevenrowley), Facebook (mrstevenrowley) there and, I have a website, www.stevenrowley.com 

Rachael Herron: [00:32:37] You were very clever to get all of the same handles everywhere. Minor. Just a little bit.

Steven Rowley: [00:32:43] Well, I, yeah, you say that, but, and I thought, Oh, Mr. Steven, cause Steven Rowley was taken by Mr. Steven. And now I have to tell the world that I’m, it doesn’t say Mrs. Tevin.

Rachael Herron: [00:32:57] I would not have seen that coming, but you’re right. That is what it looks like.

Steven Rowley: [00:33:00] Bad that’s like, that’s my plans. 

Rachael Herron: [00:33:02] I apologize for mispronouncing your name earlier too, it’s-

Steven Rowley: [00:33:05] Oh, no. I think I’m the oldest person in the world. Me and my father are the last two people. 

Rachael Herron: [00:33:11] Thank you so much for being on the show, Steven, this has been an absolute delight to talk to you and  

Steven Rowley: [00:33:17] It’s a thrill to be able to talk to someone else outside our home, so thank you for having me.

Rachael Herron: [00:33:20] That is the way. And you’re the only person I’m doing that with today, so that’s great. All right. Thanks Steven. Bye.

Steven Rowley: [00:33:27] Take care.

Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.