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Rachael Herron

(R.H. Herron)

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Rachael

Ep 252: What If I Can’t Fit Everything Into My Book?

January 27, 2022

In this bonus mini-episode, Rachael talk about when to have multiple POVs, and also tackles the question, What if I can’t cram everything I want to into this book?

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Rachael Herron: Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:18] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode #252 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. This is a bonus real quick mini episode. I am still in the bathroom in Auckland, New Zealand in our managed isolation still on day 10 of 14. This is coming. I’m recording this right after I recorded the last podcast. So I’m still in the same place. Still with the same lipstick on that could use a refresh if you’re watching on YouTube. So let’s get into a couple of questions from people who pledged to Patreon at the $5 a month level. I am your mini coach. You can ask me any damn thing you want. I will probably respond to anything you ask, unless it is absolutely outside, how do they say that outside the pail, but otherwise I’m going to answer it and I’m going to answer it on the air. So let’s go. 

[00:01:10] This one comes from Lamar Dixon, hello Lamar. Okay. So Lamar says, so my question is I have this story I want to do. But it’s been so long since I had to actually write for school or college. And I feel as if my skills have diminished and I’m not competent. And as for my story, I don’t know if I should write or make a comic out of it. I can’t draw, but I can do the writing part. But for the book aspect of it, I feel like I can’t cram everything into it, but I don’t know. Thank you for your help. Okay. So Lamar, I love this question because it is really broad and a lot of people are going to be feeling exactly like you are. And there is a simple, simple answer. You just have to start writing. If you are the kind of person who is listening, who needs a plan of action before they write, that’s absolutely fine, but give yourself a time limit and don’t let yourself have more than a week of maybe an hour and a Monday and an hour on a Friday. There you go. There’s your week. You’ve thought about it, you planned, now start writing, or you could use the whole week. You could use every day to do a little bit of plotting and planning, but don’t give yourself more than a week for me. I don’t give myself more than two days to do that because I will get into a loop in my head and most writers do. We start spiraling. We start wondering every single thing we think of is a great idea until we think about it a little bit harder and write about it a little bit more, you know, for journaling about it. And we realize, no, that’s a terrible idea. And here’s why I need to start all over. And I thought it was, this was great, but, it’s the worst thing that’s ever been thought of. And we can do that for days, weeks, months, years as we try to come up with the absolute best plan of action. 

[00:02:55] So give yourself a time limit. One week is good. And then after that, you just start writing and you are not ready, but here’s the thing: you never will be ready. We will never be ready to write the books we want to write or to write the essays or to write the memoir, whatever it is that you were writing or to write the graphic novel, we’re never going to be ready. We just have to write a terrible first draft. And I mean, Terrible first draft. I think it is at rachelheron.com/SFD, which stands for a Shitty First Draft. If you want to look at an example of a page of mine, that is a first draft. It is terrible. I’m missing whole words and ideas. I’m talking to myself on the page. That’s all that first draft is, is it’s us thinking about what we might wanna do, putting it on the page, realizing it’s awful, getting confused, and being kind to ourselves anyway, continuing to move forward into continuing to put more direct onto the page. That’s our job as a writer. So the worry that you have, that you have too much stuff to put into one book, you might be right. Another really common worry is that, I don’t have enough to put into a book and you might be right about that too, but you will never know until you write the book and when you write the book and it has too much stuff, guess what? Then you get to choose what to take out. And if you write the book and it’s not long enough, and it doesn’t have enough substance, then you get to figure out what to add, but you cannot decide those things before you write the book and it tells you what it wants to be.

[00:04:34] Because no matter what, no matter how smart we think we are about our books, they have different plans and they would like to tell you about them. And the only way they are going to be able to do that is if you let them, if you put down some terrible sentences, let them be terrible and learn from them. And come back to them later and fix them and change them and move them and delete them and add to them. But the terrible writing has to be done first. So thank you for asking the question that I love to answer over and over and over and over again. I don’t think we can talk about it enough that we have to lower our expectations for our own writing and right down to the floor and then dig a basement. We have to be comfortable with the bad writing. The good writing will come later. I promise, but the bad writing has to come first. Even if you’ve written 30 books still has to happen in that order. So thank you for that. Next question is from, here it is from Michelle. She says I, is there a sort of pro versus con to having two points of view in a story? I’m trying to write two points of view, but sometimes I get annoyed at books with more than one point of view because I like a certain character best.

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Ep. 251: Mark A. Alvarez II on How to Write Scars and Vulnerability

January 27, 2022

Mark A. Alvarez II is Hispanic-American born in Houston, Texas. He’s a graduate of Texas State University, where he studied Public Relations and Mass Communications. He is a graduate of the NEW Apprenticeship, the first tech-apprenticeship program accredited by the United States Department of Labor. He is the CEO and Founder of Light Wings Promotions LLC, a digital marketing and creative branding agency based in San Antonio, Texas, where Mark currently resides. Dutybound is his first novel. 

Transcript:

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:16] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode # 251 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. I’m so pleased that you’re here with me today in New Zealand as I record this intro. Today, we are talking to Mark A. Alvarez II. When we spoke, I was not in New Zealand, so you’re going to be flashing back and forth in time as you hear these things. If you watch on the YouTube channel, you will see me in my old office and in different places for the next couple of months because I stacked up so many episodes in order to give myself a little bit of breathing room, so that’s happening. But, Mark was really, really awesome to talk to. We talk about our own scars and how to show them in our writing. Basically, we talk about writing with the vulnerability, that means we are actually writing with truth and with honesty, with the kind of voice that readers lean in to listen to.

[00:01:16] So I know you’re going to enjoy the interview, just a little catch up around here. Again, if you are watching on the YouTube channel, number one, did you know there’s a YouTube channel? Number two: Did you know that you should subscribe to it? I think it’s YouTube, just google it YouTube Rachael Herron (RachaelHerron) or RachaelHerronWrites and it comes right up. Trying to do a little bit more with the YouTube channel these days. So if you did want to watch over there or put it on in the background while you’re doing something else, I would love that. But if you’re watching on it, you get to see what the inside of a New Zealand bathroom in a hotel looks like. And let me tell you, it is like nothing you have ever seen before, except it is actually like every other bathroom you’ve ever seen before. 

[00:01:54] Lala, my wife, made a very funny joke on Twitter yesterday, which nobody seemed to think was as funny as I did, but she said that she’s starting to get Stockholm syndrome because she finally understands how all the faucets and taps work. You know how, when you’re in a hotel room, you can never figure it out. By the time you start working it out, you’re leaving the hotel room. Well, we are in here long enough to figure out how to work every single little thing in this hotel. Including all the knobs of taps in the shower bath, which is where we are spending a lot of time because out there, it’s basically a 10×10 room with a queen size bed in the middle, a tiny desk that I have given to Lala because she is a web developer and she codes and she needs a couple of screens and I’m a writer. I can curl up in a corner, I can curl up on the bed. I have a standing desk, that is what I am at right now, in the bathroom. I’m so glad that I packed it in my suitcase and didn’t throw it out a million times. Also, I have like a little riser stand for my computer. And a friend sent to the hotel a little lap desk which is fantastic when I’m in bed.

[00:03:01] So I am set up when it comes to that, but the room is tiny. And if I’m talking at this volume, I’m going to annoy everybody. And also, if my wife is talking on a meeting at this level, she’s going to annoy me. So we repair into the bathroom at this time when we’re doing these kinds of things, which is pretty hilarious to me. But, we are spending a lot of time in this bathroom because there’s no place to get away from each other. And I was talking to her yesterday and actually I’m writing about this for my next Patreon essay, but, I’m not tired of her. I don’t want to get away from her. She doesn’t want to get away from me. It’s weird. This is day 10 of 14, trapped in a room. They bring us all our meals to the door. We open the meals after they’ve left, wearing our mask, bring them inside, eat them on the floor, cause the desk is too small, but yeah, we’re just not tired of each other yet. 

[00:03:53] However, we are both people who value alone time, more than anybody else we’ve ever met. So I don’t want to get away from her, but I want to be alone. So this bath tub has been saving us. I’ve been taking like a two-hour bath a day. She’s taking a two, two and a half hour bath a day. That adds up to four hours alone, four and a half hours alone when we do that. So that’s been awesome, a lot of tub time. What else has been going on? Really nothing’s been good on because I’ve been trapped in this room for 10 days. And I say, trapped, we are allowed at once a day if we make an appointment. And there’s a little yard, there’s a parking lot, small parking lot that you can walk in circles in, if you make an appointment and so we can go out there once a day. Today, my walkies are at 6:00 PM and I will definitely be utilizing that. I usually put a podcast or an audio book in my ears, and I just walk around and around and around and around and around, and I’m wearing a mask. So I can’t even smell New Zealand.

[00:04:55] It’s this really strange liminal space we’re at that we are in New Zealand, but we’re actually not in New Zealand. I’m recording this on a Thursday. On Monday, we get out and we move to an apartment for a week in Auckland. And we’re going to be able to walk around, no masks cause there’s no COVID here, not quit. And just live, we’ll be able to live. And I’m super, super, super excited about that. So I will keep you posted on how that is going. Everything else is continuing a pace I’m actually managing to get work done in the hotel room. I dunno, I said actually, there’s not much else to do, so of course I’m getting work done. It’s a pretty great environment for that. I wanted to quickly thank some new patrons cause I haven’t done that in a while, I think. Penelope Penn, my friend Penn. Thank you Penn. Very much. Melody Maclntyre, Kaye Neil, thank you. Thank you, Catherine Van Auken. Thank you, Kiersten Saxton. Yay Kiersten! and Julie H, thank you, thank you! And Juliet Martin, lovely person edited her pledge up to the $3 level, which is where you get texts from me. So, Juliet help that you have signed up for that. If you have not just going to Patreon and look at any of the essays and it tells you in there how to sign up for those text messages from me, which people like getting, and you can text me back and that’s, I really, really enjoy doing that. So thank you, thank you to everyone who follows along on Patreon. I hope you are enjoying the essays about moving to New Zealand and about existentially a little bit bigger than that. Like what the hell does it mean to make such a big move at midlife? And we bind everything that you know. 

[00:06:41] Thank God for writing. How do non-writers get through the world? How do they get through a life without writing? I was super upset, a very, very, very small thing. It was not matrimonial. It was an outside issue. And when I say super upset, like I was annoyed. For me, that’s pretty upset. And I went to bed annoyed and I went to bed thinking I cannot wait to write my journal because I’ll fix it then. And in the morning, I was still annoyed and I wrote in my journal and I realized, oh, there’s nothing to be upset about. Writing about it got me to understand the thing I hadn’t been able to understand to make it not annoying anymore. How do people function without that? So I think that we are just a very, very cool subsection of people that get that extra tool.

[00:07:30] So I hope that you are using your tool that you are putting it into service of your life, of your heart, of your happiness, only you can do that. If you’re not doing it, don’t beat yourself up. That’s the worst thing you can do. If you are not writing, stop beating yourself up and just write for 10 minutes. Write something terrible, something awful, terrible words that will let you down. That is fine. That’s what they’re supposed to do. That’s normal. Write for 10 minutes and then you get to feel smug that you did a little bit of writing and it will make you happier. So, that’s my prescription to you today from the inside of a bathroom. The next time we talk, who knows where I’ll be? I think I’ll be an Auckland, in an apartment but, anything could change. So, happy writing, my friends. Please enjoy this interview with Mark and we’ll talk to you soon. 

[00:08:18] Hey, you’re a writer. Did you know that I send out a free weekly email of writing encouragement? Go sign up for it at www.rachaelherron.com/write and you’ll also get my Stop Stalling and Write PDF with helpful tips you can use today to get some of your own writing done. Okay, now onto the interview.

Rachael Herron: [00:8:36] Well, I could not be more pleased to welcome to the show, Mark A. Alvarez II. Hello, Mark!

Mark A. Alvarez II: [00:08:42] Hi. How are you doing? Thanks for having me today. 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:44] I’m so excited to have you, so excited to talk to you. Let me get you a little introduction here. Mark A. Alvarez II is Hispanic-American born in Houston, Texas and I have a lot of friends in Texas, in Houston, actually. He’s a graduate of Texas State University, where he studied Public Relations and Mass Communications. He is a graduate of the NEW Apprenticeship, the first tech-apprenticeship program accredited by the United States Department of Labor. And he is the CEO and Founder of Light Wings Promotions LLC, a digital marketing and creative branding agency based in San Antonio, Texas, where Mark currently resides, and Dutybound is his first novel. So welcome to the show! Congratulations on your release. Tell me again, when it came out. 

Mark A. Alvarez II: [00:09:32] It actually, it’s not out yet. It’s coming out in June 22nd. We’re taking pre-orders right now. You can, you know, you can go and find it on my website. We’ll get to that in a little bit. 

Rachael Herron: [00:09:44] I also saw it over on Amazon and by the time this podcast goes live, because I’m pretty booked out right now, your book will be live and you will be an author already. So how does it feel to have your first book coming out?

Mark A. Alvarez II: [00:10:00] It feels absolutely amazing just because, you know, I spent so much time on it. I mean, I’ve been working on this and it’s really hard to believe. I’ve been working on this book since I was a kid. I was about 14 when I started writing it. Even, you can even say before then, because I had some source material, like I was actually like sort of dreaming of designing a video game whenever I was younger. But it was the day I finished reading Harry Potter and Deadly Hallows that I decided that I wanted to write this book. And I remember that day, cause like, as soon as I closed the book, I was like, I can’t believe it’s over. Like my Harry Potter journey is over. And I was like I need to start my own. And that’s how Dutybound, all the seeds for Dutybound started. 

Rachael Herron: [00:10:46] I love that and all these years later. So what are you going to do to celebrate when you’re book comes out? 

Mark A. Alvarez II: [00:10:52] Well, my mom is planning a small get-together. It’s a little launch party for me with close friends and family. I’m inviting some people from my, you know, high school and some people that I grew up with, things, people that haven’t caught up with in the long time because you know, it’s like a homecoming. I left home and did what I was sought out to do and, coming home, you know, finally fulfilled, finally reached the dream. And, you know, there’s still much more work to do, but that’s the way I’m treating it is, you know, a homecoming and, you know, I finally, I’m a champion and triumphant, victorious.

Rachael Herron: [00:11:30] I love that.

[Read more…] about Ep. 251: Mark A. Alvarez II on How to Write Scars and Vulnerability

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Ep. 250: Rachael Herron and Sara Shepard in Conversation – How To Launch a Book in Strange Times

December 8, 2021

From Rachael Herron’s book launch, an awesome conversation between her and Sara Shepard (Pretty Little Liars) about what it’s like to launch a book in the middle of a pandemic!

Transcript:

Edward Giordano: [00:00:00] Hey everyone! I’m Ed, Rachael’s assistant. As you know, she’s off busy moving to New Zealand and we wanted to get this great recording from the Hush Little Baby launch at Murder by the Book out into the podcast world. This is an awesome conversation between Pretty Little Liars’ author, Sarah Shepherd, and Rachael about Rachael’s new book and both of their writing processes. Special thanks to John at Murder by the Book in Houston for letting us use this audio who also hosts many other great author events on their Facebook and YouTube page. Thanks for listening and enjoy the show!

John McDougall: [00:00:38] Hi, everybody! Thanks for joining us this evening. This is John. I am the event coordinator at Murder by the Book here in Houston, and I’m so excited for tonight’s event. But before we get started, I just wanted to give everybody a couple of general announcements about what’s going on in the store. So if you have not come to visit us in a while, we have been open since October for in-store browsing, so you can come visit us. We’re still limited to six people in the store at a time, just because it’s a small space. I’m sure, in the next couple of weeks, we will probably adjust that a little bit with the new CDC regulations. But even with those, we’re still asking everybody to please wear a mask when you come in. As many of you know, with us being in Houston, so close to the medical center, we do have a lot of immuno-compromised people that come in that are getting treatment at MD Anderson and we just want to make sure that everybody feels comfortable in the space. So we hope that you will continue to mask up when you come to visit us, but please come visit us. We know that not everybody is getting out and about just yet. So if you were still doing curbside pickup, if you want to do that, just give us a call when you pull up. We used to have a table where we would set your books outside. We’re not putting the table out anymore mostly because we’re lazy booksellers in generally forget that the table is outside. So inevitably we would set the alarm, walk out the door to lock up and realize there was a table in there and try to scramble to get it in before the alarm went off. So just give us a call when you pull up and we’re happy to run books out to the parking lot for you. 

John McDougall: [00:01:54] We’ve got lots of great stuff coming up. So if you have not checked out murderbooks.com lately, we’ve got a bunch of virtual events, we had done over 200 of these with over 350 authors since the pandemic started. So those are all up for watching on our Facebook and our YouTube channel. Next Monday, we’re going to be doing another a Gore and Pulse Event. Next Thursday, we’re super excited, we’re going to be chatting with May Cobb about her new book, The Hunting Wives, which comes out Tuesday and then another great Texas author, Amy Gentry, is going to be in conversation with her. So we hope that you guys will check that out. Also when you’re perusing the website, make sure you check out the signed book and signed personalized pages cause we’ve been getting, we just confirmed a lot of really cool sign stuff. And also, a general disclaimer, we haven’t had any issues in a couple of days, but sometimes when we do our virtual events, especially on Facebook, we will get some spammers pop up and post links asking you to click away from the event to go somewhere else, to put in your credit card info to watch the event, you don’t have to do that. The event is free to watch. You’re watching it already. So you don’t have to click away to get somebody, your credit card info to watch something that is out already. If any of those pop up, I will block them as I see them. But sometimes I just wanna make sure you guys don’t click on them before I can get to them.

John McDougall: [00:03:05] As I said, I’m so excited for tonight’s event. R.H. Herron, Rachael Herron, is one of my favorite people in the world, as we were talking before. She has come and stayed at my house when she was in town. I visited her out in San Francisco with her wife and everybody that lives out there. So I’m so excited that we’re doing this. If you guys have not read Hush Little Baby yet, you are in for a ride. It is a nail biter. It’s twisty. It’s so fantastic. And we’re super excited to have Sarah Shepherd to be chatting with us this evening. So I’m going to bring them out. I’m going to start with Rachael. How are you tonight, Rachael? 

Rachael Herron: [00:03:35] I’m so thrilled to see you. I would really, really like to give you a hug, but this will do. Are you in the downstairs bedroom where I sleep? 

John McDougall: [00:03:43] No, I am actually, I’m in our, in the library and the computer room that we just repainted and just got new bookcases. So it’s all like,

Rachael Herron: [00:03:50] It looks beautiful by the way.

John McDougall: [00:03:51] Thank you. Pro tip, don’t remodel a room in your house when you’re serving on jury duty in the middle of a pandemic, because it’s exhausting. Like, don’t do it.

Rachael Herron: [00:04:00] I cannot even imagine! Good for you. Well, it looks great. 

John McDougall: [00:04:02] Thanks. Congratulations on the new book, Hush Little Baby. It just came out yesterday. So for anybody who is watching, if you pre-order from, or if you order the book from us, Rachael will send you a signed book like. So when you order, when I send you your order confirmation, I will send you her email address so she can get in touch with you, and if you want to personalize, let her know. But so if anybody is tuning in and doesn’t know Rachael AKA, R.H. Herron, she received her MFA in writing from Mills College, Oakland. She is the author of the thriller’s Stolen Things and this new one, Hush Little Baby, as well as the best-selling author of more than two dozen books under a different name. She lives and teaches in California. And as I said, we’re super excited to have Sarah Shepherd with us this evening. I’m going to bring her out. How are you tonight, Sarah? 

Sara Shepard: [00:04:46] Hi! I’m good! How are you?

John McDougall: [00:04:48] Thanks so much for being here with us. 

Sara Shepard: [00:04:51] I’m so happy to be here. 

John McDougall: [00:04:53] So, Sarah Shepherd is the number one New York times bestselling author of the Pretty Little Liars series, the Lion Game series, the Heiress, the Eliza’s, the Perfectionist series, and Reputation, which is her most recent. We have copies of both authors’ books in store. So if you want to order those, you can do that at murderbooks.com. I’m going to drop a link in the comments in just a second, so you can get more information about them. And I’m going to turn this over to Sarah in just a second. But before I do, if you guys have any questions while she and Rachael are talking, please, please, please post those in the comments on Facebook and YouTube. I will be collecting those while I’m listening to them chat. And I will pop back in and just a little bit to relay those. So Sarah, I’m going to turn it over to you. You guys have fun and I will see you in just a little bit. 

Rachael Herron: [00:05:36] Thank you, John. 

Sara Shepard: [00:05:37] All right, thank you! Hi! How are you?

Rachael Herron: [00:05:41] Hi, Sara! It’s so nice to meet you in person. We were kind of saying a little bit backstage that we have a mutual bestie.

Sara Shepard: [00:05:48] We do.

Rachael Herron: [00:05:50] Cari Luna, who is an amazing writer and wrote the Revolution of Every Day. And, she said she’s here tonight. So shout out to Cari.

Sara Shepard: [00:05:56] Hi, Cari!

Rachael Herron: [00:05:58] But because of that, you and I go back like maybe almost 20 years. 

Sara Shepard: [00:06:03] Yeah. So I, it’s so funny because when I got the request to be on, in this event, which I was really excited about, I was like, I know that name! Why do I know the name R.H. Herron? And I think, I mean, I know the other name that you published under, but I really knew you from the days of blogging and we both used to be really into knitting. You probably were a more talented knitter than I was. I just made stuff but I feel like you’ve designed patterns and like.

Rachael Herron: [00:06:41] I have like designed four patterns and they were so broken. They were, 

Sara Shepard: [00:06:45] Really?

Rachael Herron: [00:06:46] They were not good at all.

[Read more…] about Ep. 250: Rachael Herron and Sara Shepard in Conversation – How To Launch a Book in Strange Times

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We’ve Moved!

September 6, 2021

We’re in New Zealand! It’s wonderful to be in my mother’s homeland. We’d been planning to move around a lot once we got here until we found a house to rent, moving week to week, with the hopeful destination of Wellington where we’d settle into a rental, but we got locked down eight days after we got out of MIQ (the quarantine hotel where we spent 14 days when we arrived).

Of course, we got locked down in heaven. Just south of Russell, we ended up in a house on the Bay of Islands, and it’s been magical. We’re both working full time, of course, so that’s worked out well, as we haven’t been allowed to do much else as we stay indoors!

View from the kitchen
Our house is the 2-story one – that’s Lala in a kayak

While we were at level 4, we took our one walk a day. At level 3, we were allowed to take out the kayaks! Excellent, exciting exercise! We enter level 2 tonight, which means we can get on the road again soon on our way to Wellington! (We’ve found a darling rental that we’re so interested in — it’s lovely and would come with the bonus that the people moving out are leaving the country, and we could buy their furniture from them! Since we have none, how ideal would that be? Please cross your fingers for us – it looks like an ideal place for a writer to be settled.)

I’m not blogging much, but I wanted to make sure that if you want to see lots more pics of our journey, you can go to Instgram or Facebook, where I’m trying to cross-post pics and videos of our adventure at both places.

We’re so lucky, and so grateful, and so excited to be starting our new life here.

Discovering the bush walk up the back of the house!

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Ep. 249: The Best Method for Building Your Writing Platform

August 11, 2021

In this bonus mini-episode, Rachael Herron talks about what she’s found to be the best platform-building tools for writers. 

Also covered: 

  • Turning your book into a screenplay
  • What if your book just isn’t as strong as you’d like yet
  • How do you handle not being historically accurate? 

Go HERE to get Rachael to be your mini-coach!

Join Rachael’s Slack channel, Onward Writers!

Transcript:

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:16] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode #249 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. Thrilled you’re here with me today on this mini bonus episode, which I’m just going to try to do more of. If you are a Patron of mine at the $5 or up level a month, not only do you get all the essays that I write, and right now I’m writing about, moving, and fear, and courage, and how both of those things feel in the body, but you get to have me as your mini coach and you get to ask me any questions. I’m finishing up all the questions right here. Got a couple of questions and then it will have no more. So you mini coaching clients, please send me some and I’ll be doing more of these videos, which I really, really love to do. 

[00:01:07] So, right now, just a little catch up. I am doing this right after I filmed the last episode. So I’m still in Idaho as we speak. Although when you get this, I will be one day away from leaving the United States of America and moving to New Zealand. We leave tomorrow as this is released. So perhaps when you listening to it on crying on an airplane, somewhere over the Pacific. Anything is possible. I have reached a really deep level of happiness though, and acceptance and excitement about this. Finally, the fear is almost gone. I’m sure there will be more of it in the days to come, but, we’ve done all the things we’ve sold the house, we’ve sold the cars, everything we own is in suitcases. And now all we have to do is live and follow our noses to where they feel like going. And that’s super exciting and I’m just tremendously overwhelmed by this feeling of anticipation and also deep happiness in the moment which is the most important thing. I’m not trying to get anywhere. Yes, we are going to New Zealand, but I don’t have an idea of what that’s going to look like or what it needs to be.

[00:02:21] It is just going to be what it should be. And what matters is this moment sitting in this particular co-working space in Idaho and how it’s a little bit hot in here and a little bit muggy, which is impossible in place. I don’t know how that’s happening. But I know that after I record this, when I go home tonight, we’re going to have Mexican food. And at this moment I really am enjoying the width and the height of this desk that I’m sitting at it’s really, really good, fits my body. I’m enjoying the incredible speed of the internet. That’s what’s going on for now. And it’s good. So, just for one second, why don’t you take a moment to think about where you are? How does your body feel? How’s your back feel? How does your brain feel as I’m talking to you? What’s going on in this very minute, what can you see? What can you taste? What is good right now? What is difficult right now, what hurts? Acknowledge that, I’m going deep and really, I meant to just answer questions.

[00:03:26] So, but do take a minute to maybe think about what you are glad of in this moment and it doesn’t have to be just good things. You can be glad about hard things too. So, I am glad that I’m with you here in this moment, in a very cool kind of time, travel way and all right, let’s jump into the questions. We can go less metaphysical and into the nitty gritty of writing. 

[00:03:52] Okay, so this first question, and the second question are from Maggie. How rude my cell phone is still on, I’m turning that off. Okay. All right. She says I’m in the process of drafting my first complete novel, where the romance between the two central characters is both of the theme and the main story I want to tell. I have a solid premise and I know my characters inside and out. Still, I’ve struggled to develop the finer points of my plot in a way that supports my character’s development while also keeping the story moving in an interesting and satisfying way. My concern is that my plot devices will feel forced and inadequate. Do you have any advice on crafting a story driven plot without over complicating the heart of the story? And then it goes on to ask a different question. I want to answer this one first. 

[00:04:43] So, you’re in the process of drafting your first complete novel of this particular book. And I would just like to reassure you and everyone listening that the finer points of your plot will be awkward and weird and wrong and flat and strange, you want them to move in an interesting and satisfying way. They will not, they will move in a dull, boring and completely unsatisfying way. That’s a first draft’s job. It’s also sometimes even a second draft’s job and the more we get comfortable with allowing our books to really just suck the big one. The closer we get to being able to create books that satisfy us completely, that satisfy every single thing that we want them to do. First, they have to be written wrong. And, that is a truth that is just gonna continue to be a truth for the rest of our lives as writers. So it’s kind of liberating, isn’t it? In a first draft or sometimes even a second draft, what we do in the book is just, it just feels bad. It just feels wrong because said with love, it is it’s not good enough yet, but you can’t make it good enough until the book is written. There’s no way, right, there are a few exceptions to this. I’ve known like I, and I’ve told- I’ve said this before, I have known four or five professional writers with, you know, 30 or 40 books under their belts who go through the book and they make the book good as they go. That is less than 1% of the writers that I know. The rest of us cannot make chapter six. Good. And then go on to chapter seven, we just write chapter six and it’s bad, and it is not interesting and it is clumsy and wrong.

[00:06:44] And then we go on to chapter seven and we have to do it that way. Ninety nine point- I’m going to say 99.3% of writers have to do it that way. If you think you’re not that kind of writer, and maybe this is not you, I’m not talking to you because I know you and you’re not this kind of writer, but if you think you are the writer who has to get it right before moving forward, that is only your method if you are regularly completing good books that you are proud of, if you are not, and you think that that is your method. That’s not true. You’re wrong. Your method is to write a crappy first draft and get to the end and then revise it just like everybody else. The only way that you know, that is your method, that perfectionist method of making a chapter good and then moving on to the next one and then making that good and then moving onto the next chapter is if you are regularly completing good books. So that is a really useful test to see if you are in that .7% of people who can do that, are you doing it? Then that’s you, if you’re not doing it, then you’re just like the rest of us.

[00:07:44] So going back to Maggie and her question, the next part of that is my novel is loosely inspired by sensitive and important events in history. However, my goal and vision is not to write historical fiction. What are your thoughts on how to be sensitive to historical themes without needing to make sure I’m being historically accurate in my representation of the events? So this is great. I think a lot of writers struggle with this because history is important. It is important, it’s how we got here. History it’s how I got here, it’s how you got where you are, history matters and you mentioned the word sensitive, which means that these are probably historical events that perhaps have two different sides as most historical events do. And what I like to recommend when writing historical events is to hold them with a loose hand, move stuff around. If you want to, there are some writers who really, really, really want to be historical writers and getting the history in the right place. On the right day, at the right time of day with the right weather is going to be very important to them.

[00:08:55] And that is perfectly fine. However, you’re currently saying your goal is not to be a historical writer is to tell this story of these characters. So hold it loosely. If you need to move stuff around, allow yourself to do so. And then, before the book is published you just get to put in that magic line at the beginning of the book that, or at the end of the book that says some historical events have been moved or changed in order to suit my story. There. You’re in the clear, the average reader who doesn’t know much about these events will be learning from your events even if you have changed some things, they’re learning deep lessons from what you are showing them and the avid historical reader, who knows every single thing about this particular battle and where it occurred and who died first, who died second, who won, who lost? They will be comforted by the sentence that says, I know the history and I’m choosing to change it, to suit my story. And you get to do that. You are allowed. And in fact, I encourage you to do that because I think that’s really fun. 

[00:10:01] All right. Next question of all the different methods you have tried newsletter, social media, promotions, podcasting, et cetera, which one has been the best for building your platform/finding your specific readers/fans? What in the early years of your writing career, pre-published, to a few books published, do you wish you had done more of, or less of? Okay, so I have two answers for this because I have two different basis of readers. I have the writer base, people who come to me to hear podcasts like this, to talk about writing, to talk about how to complete books and how to get out of their own damn way and get their work done. So that has a particular niche of people. The best thing that I have done in finding them is podcasting reliably for more than five years now. This is episode 249 and that’s awesome. That’s a lot of freaking podcasts for, I dunno, three or four years. I did the Writer’s Well podcast with J. Thorn that also increased my visibility as a teacher of writing. Probably another thing I did that really got me to know a lot of people was teaching both at Stanford and Berkeley and having that kind of word of mouth. And that’s how writers have found me as a person to listen to and ask questions of. So podcasting is probably my primary purpose for that, but if you, but for my readers, for finding readers of my fiction and of my memoir that I write, this was such a good question.

[00:11:44] What I wish I had focused on earlier is the thing. I always encourage everyone to focus on as early in their careers as they can. I wish I had been building my mailing list as early as possible. And I was to a certain extent, I did have a mailing list that readers could join before my first book came out and I was able to do that because I was a regular and reliable blogger. I started blogging in 2002, so almost 20 years now. And I had a quite large readership on the blog. So I was able to move those readers over onto my email newsletter list for the books that I write. And a lot of those people liked the books that I wrote. So they came along with me on that newsletter experience. However, I didn’t do a great job of catching the people who read the first few books and in part that is because those books were traditionally published. And at the end of a traditionally published book, those were from Harper Collins, my first five or so books were Harper Collins. And at the end of the book, they say, please sign up to follow Rachael Herron. And then they give you the Harper Collins website to follow Rachael Herron’s books at Harper Collins. I didn’t get any of those email addresses. It’s hard to do if you’re traditionally published because the publisher wants those email addresses too. They know how valuable they are, but set up a phone and I’ll say it again. The most valuable thing you can do as a writer is to get those email addresses for yourself. Not Facebook, not Twitter, not Instagram, not TikTok, getting followers on that is fine.

[00:13:24] If you love doing that, great. But the only thing you own, you really own that is yours are those opt in newsletter subscribers never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever put anyone under newsletter, even if they’re your best friend without asking. That’s just something that I will always, always say, if you and I have been friends forever, don’t put me on your email newsletter without asking me if you ask me, I will say yes, if you don’t ask me suddenly we are not friends anymore. And I will send your email to spam and that’s just not good. I mean, that is just one of those things that everyone hates. So you want opt in newsletter subscribers. People who have said I like you. And I am choosing to ask to continue to hear more about you. That is the number one most important thing to have.

[00:14:18] I think number two, most important thing to have is just a place on the internet where you can be found. You own your own website. So that is the most, that’s the safest place to have. If you are a blogger and like blogging, do that. That’s a great way to go because then your voice is out there and people are finding you organically through search engine optimization, talking about the things you’re writing about, and then they have an option to follow you and people do. That’s the weird thing is people sign up for newsletters, but that’s true of me too. When I find something, a voice that I like, the first thing I do is I sign up for their newsletter. Often I unsubscribed after a while because either they aren’t who I wanted them to be or what I thought they were going to be. But I give a lot of newsletters, a try and certain newsletters I just absolutely love and don’t ever want to be off of, and you want to be that person and you want to be find-able. However, I will say about blogging. You do not have to blog at all. Only blog if it is something that you are passionate about doing and know that if you’re starting a blog, it’s going to be probably years before you gain traction and a large readership. So again, only do it if you love doing it. 

[00:15:30] Otherwise my take on social media. It’s changed a little bit. I’ve always said that you don’t have to build up any kind of social media following before your books come out because publishers would love it if you had a Kim Kardashian following, but they don’t expect you to. However, that’s changed recently to say that I don’t think you have to have a lot of followers, period, but you should be visible on the major platforms. You should be find-able and you should not be an asshole. Publishers are going to check. Agents are going to check. They are going to search for you on Instagram, Facebook, maybe Twitter. And if they find that you’re out there trolling or saying negative things to other people, they will immediately ignore you. They will send your email to delete. They don’t want to work for the person like that. They also want to see you out there interacting kindly with other people, maybe with writers, maybe with readers, maybe with just your friends that you went to high school with. Be visible on at least one platform perhaps.

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Ep. 248: Patti Callahan on How to Know What Your Characters Want

August 11, 2021


Patti Callaha
n is a New York Times bestselling author and is the recipient of the Harper Lee Award for Distinguished Writer of the Year. She is a frequent speaker at luncheons, book clubs, and women’s groups. Surviving Savannah is her most recent novel. 

How Do You Write Podcast: Explore the processes of working writers with bestselling author Rachael Herron. Want tips on how to write the book you long to finish? Here you’ll gain insight from other writers on how to get in the chair, tricks to stay in it, and inspiration to get your own words flowing. 

Join Rachael’s Slack channel, Onward Writers!

Transcript:

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:15] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode #248 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. Today, I am talking to Patti Callahan. I know you’re going to enjoy the interview. We were talking about how to know what your characters want. And for me, this is always one of the bigger challenges about writing my books. It takes me a while to really, really know what my characters want. I can come up with a great idea, but as I write, things always change. And I always, I always forget that my characters have wants that are different than, you know, Rachael Herron’s on a general day. So, that is something I would have to work on in revising a lot. So it was fun to talk to her about this. I know you’re going to enjoy that. 

[00:00:59] What is going on around here? Well, I am, if you are watching on the YouTube, I’m in a new spot, I’m in a coworking spot in Idaho. We’re here for one week, seeing my wife’s family. And it has been awesome and challenging. A lot of family in the house. I think we have eight people in the house now, six of us sharing one bathroom. But it is a house full of love and it is really wonderful. Yesterday, Lala and I, there were only three of us who wanted to raft down the Boise River and what that means is actually, just kind of like tubing down the river. It’s a very slow, very cold, very shallow river at this point, I kept swearing myself in the river. But I would whack my knees on the rocks at the boulders at the bottom of the river, because it was so shallow, but I really wanted to cool off. And it was just me and Lala and our 12-year-old nephew who ended up wanting to go and it was so fun. It was a moment of remembering that, when I want to, I get to let go of control. And I am kind of a control freak, you all know that, in so many ways. And so of course, I started out the day. 

[00:02:20] We want to be in the ideal position in the river. We want to be ahead of those people behind those people. I don’t want to hear them talk. I don’t want to have to have conversation with these strangers on the river. So let’s, you know, fight our way there. And eventually I ended up giving my paddle to the 12-year-old nephew and he became the best river guide. And it didn’t matter when we crashed into trees and the banks of the river, it didn’t matter.  It was just fun. I just got to hang out in the middle of the boat in the 96-degree weather, repeatedly throwing myself into the snow water and then climbing back up onto the boat. There was this one brilliant moment that I will share with you. Every once in a while, the river would speed up. And we would have like these tiny little rapids, which were very fun to scream as we went over. And you know, the eddies would swirl and the water would get a little rougher. And I had put myself in the water and I was, you know, the boat was towing me because it was a little bit deeper there and a little bit faster and it was exciting. And then I realized it was getting shallower, but really, really choppy. And I was getting banged around on the rocks, you know. If I had stood up, it could not have been higher than my thigh, really. But, kind of freaked me out and I wanted in the boat. I couldn’t get in the boat, because now the boat is going really fast and I’m having a very hard time hanging on to it. Everybody in the boat, Lala and Isaac are, they’re busy. They’re busy doing other things, but I needed somebody to help me up and I was really terrified in this delicious adrenaline. This is life or death, must get back on the boat, screaming. Lala was trying to haul me up my knee. My nephew hits me in the head with the paddle which was hilarious. And I managed to get on board gasping and I’m lying in the bottom of the boat, gasping and howling with laughter because the adrenaline pumping my system said that, yeah, you almost just died and, reality said that, had I let go of the boat and stood up and walked to shore, it would have been just fine and they would have pulled the boat over and I would have either walked down over to them or swam if I could, but it was not deep enough really to swim. So it was just this really delicious moment of fear that was laced with a hundred percent knowledge that I was completely fine. And it was just so great.

[00:04:39] So we’re having adventures like that. And the reason I’m telling you about that is that, I was writing this morning and I was beating myself up for not doing more writing while we’re here, while the house is full of eight people. And I can only use this coworking space for a little bit of time at a time because it’s expensive. And I was trying, for the last few days, I’ve been trying to get work done in the house. And I am interrupted all the time by people who love me, who want to talk about things. And I just had the major revelation, of course, the realization, that I should have had a few days ago, which is it is okay. I am not going to be the most productive writer for the next nine days. We’re in this country for nine more days. We are going on a big tour of after we leave Idaho going around California, seeing people and saying goodbye to them.

[00:05:31] I’m not going to get that much work done on my current projects. I have a couple that are really, really invested in working on, and I’m letting that go. I’m going to call this maybe like a little vacation. And for this workaholic, that is hard to do. There are some things, there, I’m just going to ask myself to keep on top of a few things. My email, which is hard for me to do, but I put on the vacation responder that says, I’m moving to a different country, responses will be delayed, and that helps me feel better. And I’m going to keep on top of the two classes that I’m teaching because that’s easy and fun and I love doing that. And I’m going to try to keep on top of my slack messages and everything else, I’m going to let go. I, yeah. I just thought I probably will not be able to do a podcast next week. I might do a mini podcast, Q&A, because I’ve got a cup full of questions from darling Maggie, which is a song. And I might do that and put that out next week, but I might also miss a week in here in the next few weeks and that’s okay. We have to adjust with life. And I personally, I like to talk to you all a lot, but right now I’m talking to myself. I have to take a moment and chill out and enjoy this exciting moment in our lives. There’s enjoy embarking upon this adventure, which we are already in the middle of. 

[00:06:55] So that’s what I’m doing. I’m giving myself that permission. What kind of permission do you want to give yourself or do you need to give yourself? Do you need to give yourself the permission to push yourself to write a little bit more than you are doing? Or do you need to give yourself permission to read a little bit less than you are trying to make yourself do? Where are you in your life and in your capacity to get your work done? There are times in our lives where it is easier to get more work done and when it is harder. If you are spending all your time watching Netflix and TikTok, that’s a different conversation.

That is time you could be spending writing. However, if you’re just busy living, moving, grieving, whatever it is, be kind to yourself. You have to be kind to yourself as a writer in order to do this really difficult work. I think that if I have one rallying cry, one mantra, when I am talking to writers, it is that to be kind to yourself and be honest. With my students, I always talk about how I am always two things. I’m always kind, and I’m almost always honest. Those two things go together perfectly, beautifully. We can be kind to others and we can be honest to others. And we really importantly, have to be those things with ourselves. I don’t know about you, but I’m very good at lying to myself. And I lie about all sorts of things to myself. You know, I’m going to get more work done tomorrow, or it’s really important that I get this done today. And those are sometimes just big lies that I get to uncover and say, no, it’s really okay if I take a day off or conversely, no, you’re really slacking Rachael. That is actually slacking that you’re doing. That’s not resting. That’s slacking. So why don’t you do one Pomodoro, get that done. And then of course that usually leads to more, but I’m letting myself off the hook. I’m not doing Pomodoros for at least the next nine days or until tomorrow morning when I panic and forget this resolution and hopefully remember it. 

[00:09:05] Besides, tomorrow morning, I’m going for a swim at the Y with my father-in-law, then I’m going to go get a pedicure with four of my family members. And then, we’re going to go down the river again because the family saw the little TikTok video that I made of my nephew boating us down the river while singing a song. He was making up at the time in his beautiful voice. We had this little gondolier, who learned while we were out there, how to steer a boat. You could see his body shifting and assimilating and understanding what happens when you put the ore that way, what happens when you put it that way? And by the end, he was doing all of it and Lala and I were just relaxing, staring up at the blue sky. So, ask yourself, where in the river you are, what kind of paddling you should be doing. And I hope that, at some point you come back and find me, tell me about it. 

[00:09:59] I am getting ready to send out a Patreon message pretty soon here. So, if you’re not on my Patreon, you can always check into that. I’ll do a little mid-point read of that in a second. But I would like to thank new patrons, Jenny Grant. Thank you, thank you so much. Appreciate it, Jenny Momsen, that’s a Jenny Day. Thank you. Thank you. Miley, editing her pledge up. Thank you. Thank you, Miley. Irene Scoonwinkle. Hello, Irene, wonderful to have you and Diana Ben Aaron. Same. Wonderful to have you. Claire Lydon edited her pledge up. Thank you. Boy, I love it when you guys do that because not just for the money, the money is fantastic. Thank you. It supports me in doing this work for you. However, when you edit a pledge up, it just is like this added load of confidence that you’ve been around for a while and you’re doing that. So, I don’t know, it just warms my heart. And thank you, Tyler. This, that you’re pledge just came in. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you to everyone at every single level in Patreon. It means the world to me. All right, I’m going to finish up doing some work around here. And then I’m going to take tomorrow off and the next day and the next day. And, I hope you were very kind and very honest with yourself, wherever you are when you are listening to this. All right. Happy writing my friends.

[00:11:20] Do you wonder why you’re not getting your creative work done? Do you make a plan to write and then fail to follow through again? Well, my sweet friend, maybe you’d get a lot out of my Patreon. Each month, I write an essay on living your creative life as a creative person, which is way different than living as a person who binges Netflix 20 hours a week and I have lived both of those ways, so I know. You can get each essay and access to the whole back catalog of them for just a dollar a month, which is an amount that really truly helps support me at this here, writing desk. If you pledge at the $3 level, you’ll get motivating texts from me that you can respond to, and if you pledge at the $5 a month level, you get to ask me questions about your creative life that I’ll answer in the mini episodes. So basically, I’m your mini coach. Go to patreon.com/Rachael R-A-C-H-A-E-L, to get these perks and more. And thank you so much!

Rachael Herron: [00:12:19] Well, I could not be more pleased to welcome to the show today, Patti Callahan. Hello, Patti.

Patti Callahan: [00:12:23] Hi! I’m so happy to be here. 

Rachael Herron: [00:12:25] Well, we were just talking, before we got started on era about how our paths had missed crossed and I got sick and you were double booked and it was, so this is perfect timing today.

Patti Callahan: [00:12:35] I believe in the right timing and this is it.

Rachael Herron: [00:12:38] We do. Let me give you a little bit of an introduction here. Patti Callahan is a New York Times bestselling author and is the recipient of the Harper Lee Award for Distinguished Writer of the Year. She is a frequent speaker at luncheons, book clubs, and women’s groups. Surviving Savannah is her most recent novel, which just came out. And she’s got another one coming out called Once Upon a Wardrobe, which comes out in a few months after this, and we’re recording this in April of 2021. So, no matter where you are in time, Patti has a book that has just come out around when you’re listening. So, Patti, obviously, you are prolific, you get your work done. But I can’t wait to talk to you about Surviving Savannah too, because it’s got some really heavy research involved in it too. Before we go into the research world, how and when do you get your writing done? 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:31] I think we broke up just for a little in bit. Okay.

Patti Callahan: [00:13:33] I write in the morning.

Rachael Herron: [00:13:35] Okay, so, you’re a morning writer. 

Patti Callahan: [00:13:38] I’m a morning writer. So, when I first started writing, I, my kids were five, three and one. And so, the only time I could write was the morning, right. Or the middle of the night, and I’m not a middle of the night person. So, I would rise it on. I would write from before dawn, I would write from 4:30-6:30 in the morning. I don’t do that anymore. I think that’s crazy. But it was what I had, and so it began this morning routine, that, that is now what I do. So, I try to keep my mornings blocked off for the writing. 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:13] What is your morning routine look like nowadays? What is included in it? 

Patti Callahan: [00:14:18] Well, my kids are grown. They don’t live at home. Well, they did during the pandemic. That was actually kind of fun. I have one, one married with a baby and then two, one in graduate school and one in college. So, they were home. 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:31] Oh, how fun.

Patti Callahan: [00:14:32] I know, but it, my routine looks like, I rise, I stumble to the coffee pot, I sit down and I immediately start. Sometimes on my better days, I do my morning pages, which is from the artist’s way. I’m a big believer in morning pages. 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:48] I still do those every day, every day that I can. Yeah. 

Patti Callahan: [00:14:51] Yeah. I mean, and I can tell, can’t you tell when you’ve gone too long without doing them? 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:56] Absolutely.

Patti Callahan: [00:14:57] I can tell. I get a little ungrounded, I rush into my work and make mistakes. So, I try to take a little bit of time, even if it’s like not the full three pages, but half a page or, and then I try to dive into my work. I try to ignore the ding of the email and the, you know, the text messages and the to dos. And yet at the same time, the earlier I get up, the better I can do that. And then I look up, and the day is, the rest of the world is going. So, I try my best to do it that way. 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:32] I love that. That is also my perfect way to do it. Although, sometimes it gets, 

Patti Callahan: [00:15:37] Harder and harder

Rachael Herron: [00:15:38] You know, if you glance at an email once, you’re, especially around release, when you’re doing all the things, I’ve got a release in two weeks as we speak.

Patti Callahan: [00:15:47] Which one comes out in two weeks? Hush Little Baby?

Rachael Herron: [00:15:49] Hush Little Baby. Yeah. I just got the poster in the mail today, actually. So,

Patti Callahan: [00:15:53] It looks fantastic. 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:54] Thank you. 

Patti Callahan: [00:15:55] Yes. And during release, I didn’t even try and write. I mean, I’m gentle with myself. If the two weeks before the week during, you know, if I can get to it for a couple minutes and just touch base with it and say, hello, honey. I’m here. I’m not leaving you. Right?

Rachael Herron: [00:16:11] I’ll be back. 

Patti Callahan: [00:16:12] I’ll be back. I promise. Just like I tell my family, but yes, in a non-release world, that is my, the way I like to get it done. 

[Read more…] about Ep. 248: Patti Callahan on How to Know What Your Characters Want

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