Vicki Pettersson is a NYT & USA Today bestseller of ten traditionally published novels – 9 fantasies and 1 really mean cat-and-mouse thriller – and she’s a Las Vegas native who worked as a showgirl for a decade in order to pursue her writing goals during the day. She now hosts a new channel on YouTube for aspiring authors, providing tools, tips, and strategies for a successful career while staying sane.
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Transcript
Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.
[00:00:15] Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode # 204 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. I could not be more thrilled that you are here today, we are talking to the amazing Vicky Pettersson on the show. She is a personal friend of mine. We have been in each other’s orbit or you know, 10 years but we’ve only really gotten to know each other this last year. And she is a delight. You’re going to love listening to her and you’ve got to go to her Writer’s YouTube. I routinely get inspiration from her over there. So you can look forward to that.[00:00:53] What is going on around here? Well, let’s see, I’ve gotten a copy edits on Hush Little Baby back. So I have two weeks to do that. I always think it’s going to take like three hours and it never does copy editors are always so smart and they say, why did this happen this way? Oh my gosh. She gave me a note that was like, okay so in chapter 9, she’s 39 weeks pregnant. And then a day later, she’s 40, but what happened about the 38th week? Because in the 37th week on page, blah, blah, blah. She said she was still six days away from this. They do these things, they ask these really good questions and then you have to go back and figure things out and make them work. So copy edits always take longer than I think they will. And I’m trying to be realistic about that. These are not due until Monday. It’s Thursday as I record this, I better get on it. Actually I just realized that. Yep. In my mind, I had been pushing it away as simple again, got to stop doing that will work on it after I record this and let’s see. Sorry about there being no show last week I was trapped in the grips of a migraine. That was not good. It was, it was a good, a 5-day rollercoaster of trying to get out of it and seriously not fun. So in those moments, I give myself a big old hug and a pass. I hate letting you all down. There are some of you, because you’ve told me you look forward to Fridays and its part of your schedule to listen. And I am gob smacked and honored that you would choose to do that. It makes me feel so good and it makes me feel so bad when I’m not there. When I don’t show up. I was raised to be, you know, if you’re not early, you’re late. You need to show up when you say you’re going to show up. So sometimes I really, it makes the migraine worse. I’m lying in bed, fighting, fighting this guilt, and it’s very, it’s liberating to just let it go and say. You guys know me, hopefully you adore me the way I adore you and you can understand when I’m not around. So thank you for that.
[00:03:00] Let’s see. What else? In New Zealand update, couple of things have happened. First is the best news that our dog Clementine, who basically was dying the last time I talked to you, she had been given this terrible diagnosis that said that she was going to die any minute. We literally put her in hospice and we have this it’s called a care kit that if she starts to hemorrhage to death, which is the Hemangiosarcoma that they shot, they thought she had inside, is to put her and make her comfortable until the vet can come and put her down at home. Love having that on hand, love that we are able to put her in this kind of hospice care she’s, she’s now on really great pain medication. She’s a pit bull mix. She’s the sweetest dog I’ve ever met in my life. But she’s a pit bull mix so she doesn’t show pain well, and it wasn’t until we got her completely out of pain with his drug cocktail, that hospice gave us that we realized, oh my God, you know, poor girl, like, look at how much better she feels. Also, the hemangiosarcoma that she, they thought she had in her spleen was only a surface hemangiosarcoma- it’s very hard to say, and her spleen is fine and her pancreas are doing better and she’s still in kidney disease, but whatever, she could have some more time with us. Here’s the thing New Zealand doesn’t take bully breeds at all. You cannot get them in. You can’t get them through quarantine and Clementine is the dog of our heart. We can’t, we can’t leave her behind. I, we’re gonna have to face thinking about how to leave behind our older boy cats. Our boy cats are our two brother cats can’t make the journey. They’re too old and they’re too happy with each other and I wouldn’t want to do that to them. So we’re going to have to find a new home for them and have to find a new home for that. A little blonde fur pile that’s behind me on the video, on the floor, that’s Dozy, she’s literally the cutest dog anyone’s ever seen. And I love her. But people who have had pets understand this, you have pets that you love with all your heart, and then you have the pet, every once in a while you get the pet that is a, an animal of your soul. Digit, my cat was like that. Harriet, Lola’s dog was like that. Clementine is that for both of us. So with this stay of execution, the literal stay of execution, we don’t know how long we’ve got here now. Lala asked the vet yesterday, so what’s the prognosis for this particular dog at this particular time? If we keep her out of pain and keep feeding her the good stuff and they said cheerfully, Oh, you know, you might get another couple of good years out of her and Lala and I are both thrilled and at the same time, allowing us to go to New Zealand was losing her and that was kind of almost part of the recovery of the heartbreak of knowing we would lose Clementine at any second within the next, you know, day or two or next week we were thinking about New Zealand and that was comforting. So like it’s super, super awesome. And it might be slowing down our, retreat, which is just fine. It’s just fine. [00:06:15] Very excited, still to think about New Zealand and think about, the health care that we will receive there. We’re moving early enough in our lives that if we stay, which is our plan, we will be, we will have paid in enough to have retirement, actual retirement. We are, both Lala and I are grasshoppers. You know, we’ve, we’ve always lived rather than saved. So we do have some retirement savings, but it’s very, very low compared to most 48 year olds in this country. So, knowing that my taxes in New Zealand can go to taking care of us in our dotage is really exciting. I did apply for my New Zealand passport, which I had never gotten around to doing just hadn’t been something I wanted to spend $150 on knowing I have citizenship, but not having the passport wasn’t a big deal. So I went to their website, I applied for my passport and New Zealand apologized to me on the website and said, we’re so sorry. It might take up to 16 days to get this to you. Is that gonna be okay? Meanwhile, I had mailed Lala’s renewal of her US passport because it had expired. And they’re saying, we hope we get this back to you in six months, but no guarantees, New Zealand not only took those two weeks that they had asked for those 16 days, they actually got it to me in 10 days, a brand new passport, I never had a passport. Citizen who’s never had a passport. It shows up in my hand in California, hand delivered from DHL, my new passport. And it’s beautiful. It’s such a gorgeous passport. It’s, it’s this, this got the silver fern on it. It’s got all of these, amazing digital things happening. There’s a little clear spot, but if you look through the clear spot, you can be almost see my face, like a shadow of my face as well as the three different other places that are, you know, my, my face board into this plastic page that is like a computer basically in this passport. Right now, it is the most powerful passport in the world. Right now, I can get into 129 countries without a visa, which is the strongest there is right now in COVID days. Not that I would ever foist my American body from this germ pool that we are continuing to live in. I would not go to another country. And if we go to New Zealand, we do have to do the two-week mandatory quarantine, of course, inside their hotel where they bring you every meal and you pay, you pay through the nose for it and good for them. That’s how they keep COVID out of their country. Anyway, I feel like I’m rambling right now, but there has been a lot of, back and forth motion. And a lot of, a lot of good feelings just we’re so happy that Clementine feels better and we might get some more time with her. And we’re also really happy to be moving forward with this plan, but at a slower pace, we’re not trying to get out by April, which was what our original timeframe was. So, I’ll keep you posted on that. It is very exciting. I’m looking forward to updating you and taking you with us to New Zealand will my old accent come back that I had until I was seven, probably it’s super annoying. I really hate it. Cause I can hear it in my own voice as soon as I get there or as soon as I talk to a Kiwi, it comes back. It used to come back a lot when I was drinking and a lot, when I was really, really tired after being up for like 48 hours at work, then it would come back but since I don’t do though, either of those things anymore, Lala, my wife doesn’t usually hear my New Zealand accent and she mocks me when it comes out but it’s still there and it wants to come out. [00:09:56] So, okay. I also would like to thank a bumper crop of Patreon, pledges, which make me feel wonderful. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much to the people who support on Patreon. You are the reason I get to write those essays that I love writing; this last essay was about my love affair with my desk and organization. And then I, from there moved out into the connection that we need in this world. And right now you and I are connecting. And I think that is pretty special and terrific, so thank you for being here. So thank you also to new patrons at the, you get a text from me that you can respond back to level, which is the $3 a month level. Thank you to Deir Anne Charlize. I’m probably saying your last name wrong, but it is beautiful and I appreciate you for many reasons and you know why. Natalie Tyndall, thank you. Tracy Bishop, thank you, thank you so much y’all and at the $5 a month level where I become your mini coach and I do those mini episodes for you, after I collect some questions. I have new patrons, Sonya. Sonya. I’ve never known how to say your last name; Wrights is how I’m going to attempt it. So you, you are darling, thank you. And also Shakoura Amatoula, beautiful name. Thank you, Shakoura. Doug Schneider. Hey Doug! It’s nice to see you and Lisa and Jill Ross Kneidler. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. It means the world that you show your support of this show and of those essays in such a hugely important and lovely way. I got to tell you, I say this every once in a while that, even the $1 pledges are so welcome and appreciated, like from the bottom of my heart, it doesn’t matter what level you pledge at, it makes a really true difference in my life. It is something that allows in my budget for us to save for pet emergencies, which is how we were able to afford pet hospice, which- oh my God, I wish everyone could use. I wish that our vets that we go to and spend so much money on, have the, would have the time to talk you through five different medicines that will have very few side effects, but makes an animal feel so much better. Would that be wonderful? [00:12:22] So, anyway, thank you for the patronage. Really appreciate it. You can always go check that out at Rachel- no, that’s wrong at patreon.com/Rachael There’s that. Let us jump into this amazing and inspiring interview with my friend Vicki. You will want to leave our conversation and go write. I can predict it. And I think that you should find me somewhere online and tell me how you are doing writing wise. I always love to hear it. I wish you happy writing my friends and we’ll talk soon. [00:12:51] Hey, you’re a writer. Did you know that I send out a free weekly email of writing encouragement? Go sign up for it at www.rachaelherron.com/write and you’ll also get my Stop Stalling and Write PDF with helpful tips you can use today to get some of your own writing done. Okay, now onto the interview.Rachael Herron: [00:13:12] Well, I could not be more pleased at, I’m already giggling to introduce my friend Vicki Pettersson. Hello, Vicki!
Vicki Pettersson: [00:13:19] Hello!
Rachael Herron: [00:13:20] Welcome to the show! We were just chatting backstage as it were, about how thrilled we are to be having this discussion. Let me give you a little bit of an introduction. Vicki Pettersson is a New York Times and USA Today bestseller of 10, traditionally published novels – 9 fantasies, and 1 really mean cat-and-mouse thriller. And she’s a Las Vegas native who worked as a showgirl for a decade in order to pursue her writing goals throughout the day. I love that. She now hosts an awesome new channel on YouTube for aspiring authors, providing tools, tips, and strategies for a successful career while staying sane. Vicki, I have to tell you, I love your YouTube channel and when I watch it, I’m like she really, my friend she’s so cool and fun and pretty.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:14:02] I feel like that every single time we talk, every single time I run into you, I’m like, I know her! I mean quarantine, I’m not saying it to anyone but myself. I’m like, I know, I know her. I’m so happy to finally know you because we have friends in common, but now we finally connected and I would like to keep you.
Rachael Herron: [00:14:22] There. That is what I do. I like to collect and to be collected.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:14:27] Awesome
Rachael Herron: [00:14:28] So works for me, yeah, we are in, and I will say this because it’s not a secret and it’s something other writers I think should do. We’re in a mastermind together and that’s kind of how we’ve gotten to know each other is we have this author’s mastermind. Have you ever been in a mastermind before?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:14:43] I have not and I was, I am not a joiner by nature. Obviously. You know, not unsurprising for a writer. And so initially I was like, no, no, no I can’t do that I don’t, it’s a commitment, and you know, and I’m bad with anything that has to be planned. If that’s bringing something on me, then I’m like, yeah, let’s go do that. I’m super excited about it. But I have to plan out for more than a week and like that’s an obligation. So I was, worried and then I was like, you know what? I need to shake things up. I’ve been alone for, you know, two decades, really doing this gig alone. And I think it would be great to have some sort of camaraderie and writing besties and, and you know, the people in the group are all very, you know, independent and strong and experienced, and I had literally nothing to worry about and it’s been so additive, additive to my life just, not just because I love everybody in there, but also because, the experiences, I can run things by all of you and, I don’t have to give so much context, you know, you understand where I’m coming from and you can just nail it from the beginning, so
Rachael Herron: [00:15:58] Especially since I think all of us came in around the same time. I think you were maybe a couple a year or two before me but we were all coming in around 2008, 2010 into publishing. Right? When did you, when did you first come out?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:16:10] Yeah, so the first one was out in ‘07
Rachael Herron: [00:16:12] Okay. Yeah. So we all kind of have been through this huge sea change.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:16:18] In each scene, literally right after or during your, cause you came in ’09, ’10, right?
Rachael Herron: [00:16:24] Yeah. That’s when everything was changing.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:16:27] Under your feet must tell it quick sand. I know it’s not like quick sand under my feet so
Rachael Herron: [00:16:32] borders closed the week that my second book came out. The week
Vicki Pettersson: [00:16:38] I had a book in my first series come out the week that the stock market crashed. So the bookstores literally sent it back three days later, gone. Remaindered, stripped everything and that some of that series I was like, yes. That sucked.
Rachael Herron: [00:16:59] And that’s one of those things you cannot predict and the same thing for COVID people coming out during COVID like, what if it was your very first book coming out right now? I have a friend whose very first book came out on 9/11 in 2002, like literally sold nothing. Nothing.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:17:15] No. Then the bean counters counted against her sales and
Rachael Herron: [00:17:22] Absolutely. Yeah. You didn’t, you didn’t earn out. So therefore you can’t sell another book.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:17:25] Yeah. So that’s a, that’s what, that’s what you can’t control about this business, I think is the harvest part of this business. Yeah. It makes the writing seeing infinitely easier.
Rachael Herron: [00:17:36] Yes. I was just going to say that because it is something that it’s the only thing I can control; is the writing. So speaking of writing, first of all, but let’s say it at the top end at the bottom of this episode, where can we find you on YouTube, your channel?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:17:47] So it’s Vicki Pettersson Author, you can just Google it because YouTube is a Google search engine and it’ll pop right up. Yeah.
Rachael Herron: [00:17:57] Perfect. So let’s talk about your writing process because I love the way that you talk about writing. You talk about writing the way I want to always talk about writing, which is really enthusiastically, really encouragingly and to say that, yes, you can do this and it’s hard for everybody. Which is, which is better to me than ever, you know, the people who say, Oh, everybody can do this. No, it’s hard. And it hurts and we have to talk about it. So,
Vicki Pettersson: [00:18:24] Right. Well, I think everybody can do it if they have discipline. If they’re willing to put in the time, if they’re willing, if they want it more than anything else in the world, like for a time there and I don’t think this is forever, but in the beginning you really need to make it a priority and make it like learning the craft of it your obsession. Right? And then eventually it can join all your other obsessions and it becomes one more, one more of those things that you have, you know, like in your toolbox. Everyone was talking about a writer’s tool box and how you pull those things out one by one. But the entire craft can be, become that, you’re always learning and growing, and you’ve never arrived because you’ve never written this particular book before, but you know, there are some things that you don’t have to keep learning again and again, and again. I know how to structure a sentence. I know that show don’t tell for me comes later in drafts. I suck at that. I, I, I tell so much that my editors are like, this sucks. I’m like, shit, I have to go back in
Rachael Herron: [00:19:26] Get it again
Vicki Pettersson: [00:19:27] The entire book, but that’s just a, that’s called a draft. So I’ve got buttercup of new work.
Rachael Herron: [00:19:33] I really love letting editors do their job too. Well, me and a couple of you- Sophie, who you know, we always say, well, they’re getting paid to do this job let them do their work rather than trying to, to send them a perfect draft, nah, just send it to them
Vicki Pettersson: [00:19:50] Yeah you level best at that time, giving you your constraints, but there was a deadline or you’re dumb? I don’t know that month. I don’t know. And then, and then let it go and keep going, you know
Rachael Herron: [00:20:02] Yeah. And I can almost hear listeners going, but I don’t have an editor. You will have an editor, no matter what, if you are going to publish a book, even if you self-publish, you will have an editor to help you with this. And I think that a lot of the people that I work with forget that. They’re like I have to make it as perfect as I can. And that’s all. No, you can have an editor to help you.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:20:20] Yeah, that’s right. Like I said, you do your level best that they want to help you. That’s what they’re there for. And then also, like they’re not there to change your book. I one, one thing that, or one question that the winning novelists often have, are they going to make me change my book? And they’re like, no, that’s your book. Nobody’s going to make you do anything, but they enhance what’s there or they point out you know, what you think you put on the page that remains in your head. And so I take 98%
Rachael Herron: [00:20:51] I do too, maybe 99.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:20:53] Probably 99.5. Let’s just keep raising the bar here because like I just do it. They’re like this sex change with a client, no ego, no ego. Like you can’t have an ego when it comes to that stuff, because that’s why you have that second pair of eyes. And then I just want to say, as far as the way I talk about writing on the channel, I, that is jump cut, cutted. That is edited to the, to the teeth. Like I am
Rachael Herron: [00:21:21] I am so good at editing it though. It’s like, so professional
Vicki Pettersson: [00:21:23] It’s fun. storytelling. It’s one of those things that I had to learn. I just learned Imovie on my mac and it took me a couple of weeks, maybe a month, you know, not even that long, a couple of weeks, I just had to take the time for, to watch a tutorial and somebody showed me how to do it. And then I just did it. And now I just, I take out even breath. So if I take a breath, I go as fast as I possibly can. And I try to get as much material on that given subject in a short amount of time, because I don’t want to waste anybody’s time.
Rachael Herron: [00:21:55] What’s really funny is that I watch everything on YouTube at about 1.5 or 1.75. And I can’t, I can’t for you.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:22:03] Yes that’s my goal.
Rachael Herron: [00:22:04] That would be too fast.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:22:06] Okay, two things. Number one, that’s why I do it. And then number two, when you’re trying to build a YouTube channel, like I’m trying now, because it’s relatively new. If somebody does that, it doesn’t count towards your watch time.
Rachael Herron: [00:22:20] Wait. What?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:22:21] Yeah, it counts like half the watch time so.
Rachael Herron: [00:22:22] You’re kidding!
Vicki Pettersson: [00:22:24] No, I just, I, I mean, I heard that somewhere, it may or may not
Rachael Herron: [00:22:27] That’s so rude. I feel bad now because like, my brain gets bored if people are slow, you’re not slow. That’s, you will never, ever, I don’t think you’ve ever been boring in your whole life, so I will just say that. Speaking of, speaking of not boring, what is your writing process like? Where and when and how much and how do you get into it? All of that.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:22:47] I just cut out the boring parts.
Rachael Herron: [00:22:51] That is literally the goal, right?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:22:53] Literally the goal. No. Well, okay. So I can give you my idea, but with the caveat that it always changes, depending on now, okay I’ve been doing this for two decades, I’ve done it through a birth, a divorce, a remarriage living in two cities, mostly working on airplanes. So all of that said, you know, it changes, there are a lot of variables there, however, ideally I’m up early. I love-
Rachael Herron: [00:23:22] What is early for you?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:23:23] Oh gosh, I wish I could get up earlier, but about 5:30.
Rachael Herron: [00:23:28] That’s nice and early. Yeah.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:23:30] My grandmother used to get up at 3 in the morning and I was like, grandma that’s the middle of the night. She’s like, well, I have so much to do. I was like what do you have to do? So-
Rachael Herron: [00:23:40] That’s perfect.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:23:41] Yeah. So I think I’m turning into her. I keep pushing it back. But when I first started and I was writing my second novel, I had a newborn, I was getting up at 4:00 AM, waking myself and hating it, but just thinking, how bad do you want it? How bad do you want it? And that’s what I was referring to before. Like in the beginning you have to be a little obsessive and do that. I don’t have to do that anymore because I don’t have a newborn. If I did, then, you know, yeah. So what you have to realize is what’s going on with you now is not, it’s not always going to be that way at a good or bad, you know, so you do the very best you can with what you have at that time. So right now, I get to be in one place, the pandemic has limited me to one city, so I’m no longer going back and forth between two different cities every other week. And so I get at the 5:30, 5:30 and I grab my coffee and I go into this room, it’s the new room for me, it’s a new space. That’s why it’s so boring, but I promise you, I’m going to turn it into my YouTube studio and it’s going to be really pretty. So yeah, just a room where I can shut the door. I really have come to find that I really love being able to shut that door and it just, my, my mind takes a mental exercise to releases it, and then I can just take those first hours of the day to usually I can read, I’ll read, a little bit, try to stay away from the news cause I don’t want that in my mind. First thing, read some fiction, but generally I will write, not write journal. So I have this other working writer’s journal.
Rachael Herron: [00:25:30] Oh, will you please share this incredible idea? And people can also go look at your website for this, but did I tell you that I’ve started doing this since you told me about it?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:25:38] No
Rachael Herron: [00:25:39] I always kind of kept my morning pages on the side and I did a lot of journaling about writing inside it, but you do it a little bit differently and I would love for you to tell us this.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:25:50] Yeah. So, well, first the reason I do it differently is because I’ve done morning pages as well, Julia Cameron’s the right way. And it’s a classic and it’s wonderful. And it works for so many people and it works for me, but I always had that sense of, well, I can’t read my handwriting and it’s great that I got it out and you know, it’s very meditative for the day, but I can’t use any of that now, now, and feel like, you know, there’s, you know, 1500 words, sending a 1500 words and maybe there was something in there that I could use, you know, because it’s in here and it’s all connected. So I actually, I don’t know if I, I think I neglected to say this. I had originally heard it somewhere from Sue Grafton. The late Sue Grafton
Rachael Herron: [00:26:34] I think you said that I think that was on the video. Yeah.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:26:36] Okay, great and, and so I’ve augmented it a little bit, but really all you do is you write down the date, so you end the day. So I’ll write down the date and the day. And to ground, to ground yourself, right? It sounds silly, but it grounds me. And then I write only no more than two sentences of where I am in that day. So that I know, you know, my child is sick, you know or I was up in the middle of the night with a toddler or, you know, I didn’t sleep well last night or I got a great night’s sleep. And so that serves as a record of- so later on, you can go back and see what the writing did or did not go well that day. It’s not an excuse, but it’s really, it’s like, all right, give yourself a little bit of a break. You’re more than just a writer. You’re this fully formed human being. And so all of it, all of it counts. Right? So it kind of records your mental state at the beginning. And then I, I give myself not a story prompt because again, I just feel like prompts are not useless, but I really like everything to be applied. If you only have so much time and more importantly, so much mental energy you really want that to be going into the work. Right?
Rachael Herron: [00:27:53] Yes
Vicki Pettersson: [00:27:54] So I’ll give myself of where I left off in the story yesterday, or what I’m thinking about today or the problem that I’m having with this story right now, or if I’m really, really been on it and, and left myself notes from the day before for a scene, you know, like how to get in and out of it. And maybe two or three, you know, how it turns turning points in that, in that particular scene, then I can start talking about that. And I swear to you, like if I do that and I just melt into it before the morning- before yeah, the morning and the day and the news and you know, all of the responsibilities that I have get to me, I’ve written, you know, 700 to a thousand words within 45 minutes, before I even opened that door again, before my coffee has gone cold, right. It’s amazing. And so then that’s a wonderful win. And then I will get up and go, you know, take my child to school, if that’s what needs to be done or you know, just do the morning shuffled, I call it, brush my teeth and then, and then come back for three or four hours’ tops. And that’s it. And so I like to leave the afternoon so I can run errands, speak with family, go watch my kidlet play tennis and you know, real life. I don’t work all day. I don’t even try to work all day anymore. I don’t think it’s healthy for me. And, and I don’t care like writing is now, writing is now a part of my life, it’s not my entire life.
Rachael Herron: [00:29:27] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. And when you’re writing about writing, you, do use Scrivener? I can’t remember what you said.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:29:35] You, do you use Scrivener?…
Rachael Herron: [00:29:36] Is it just like a, it’s like a journal inside that inside that project? Is that right?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:29:41] So I’ll have like, swerve, elite swerve, working journal. So, yeah, so it’s a record of that time in my life. So you can go back and what’s also great is you can go back and see, you know, if you have any uncertainty that where you are in your project, you can go back and look at your previous uncertainty and go, Oh, I’ve been here before.
Rachael Herron: [00:30:04] Well and that’s why I was gonna have a question. Do you have the same concerns coming up a lot? I’m sure that that would happen for me. And also, I think you said in your video that sometimes you will just be able to lift writing out of the journal and put it into the working document. Right?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:30:19] Yeah, that’s right. That’s what I’m talking about, that 700 to a thousand words of you know, all of the sudden most of the time I’ll be writing down dialogue, you know, and I’ll go, and it’ll be dialogue and then my work quote, unquote easy work for the day, is just like tagging that shit.
Rachael Herron: [00:30:37] Oh, that’s beautiful.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:30:39] So pretty. It makes me so happy, it gives me chills.
Rachael Herron: [00:30:43] The time, the times that I’ve done it, cause you know, I’ve just been finishing up this book since I’ve heard this idea, but at the same thing has happened like I’ll be writing about the work, about the work, and suddenly somebody will say something and I’ll type out what they say. And then somebody else starts talking and the scene starts happening even though I was just, I call it skeletoning sometimes when I’m writing about what’s gonna happen in a scene and it just takes off. It’s so fun.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:04] It’s so fun.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:05] And it’s like you’re tricking yourself cause I didn’t tell myself I was going to work on the document like I’m just journaling.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:09] It’s a total trick. It’s a total trick because it’s not your documents, it’s not open.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:14] Right, right
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:15] Your book isn’t open
Rachael Herron: [00:31:16] You’re not working on that.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:17] You’re not working, you’re just, you just doodling.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:18] You’re having a cup of coffee and doodling
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:20] You’re having a cup of coffee in the freshest part of your day when your mind is at its, you know, freshest and also pretty close to that, you know, sleeping state. Right?
Rachael Herron: [00:31:32] Which is great place to approach the page from I’ve always believed
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:35] Yeah capture that map.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:37] Yeah. So what is the biggest challenge you have when it comes to writing?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:40] Okay. This is so vulnerable.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:45] Oh, good.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:46] Yeah, no actually, actually, you’re going to help me with this because you sent out via your patreon today a, an essay on failure.
Rachael Herron: [00:31:58] Oh, yes.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:31:59] Yeah. So, learning that failing doesn’t mean you’re a failure.
Rachael Herron: [00:32:05] Yeah.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:32:06] Because, okay. So for example, like with that first series in that book of being sent back, I mean, my first series then Tanked, right? I mean, I had another book left in it, but after that, you know, the cells are what they are, so failure. Right. My second, my second series was a trilogy. It was only meant to be a trilogy, but I had bigger expectations for it. Failure. My Swerve, last thing I’ve ever written, a lot of people don’t know that. Failure. You know, so, but failing doesn’t mean you’re a failure. I really had to separate that and this is the part of like, why I talk on YouTube about being healthy as well, because you are not just a writing machine, you know, you’re a person and you need to have all of these aspects in order to you in order to write about anything at all. So, so that has been really hard. I remember I quit white writing for a few years in 2015 after my father passed. And it was really a travesty because I remember thinking I can’t quit because I’ll be a quitter, but I couldn’t mourn without quitting. So here I am in one of the most eventful, one of the biggest events of my entire life and I felt like I couldn’t mourn it. Such tragic bullshit,
Rachael Herron: [00:33:34] Yeah
Vicki Pettersson: [00:33:35] Tragic bullshit. And so I was like, I never, ever, ever going to feel that way about writing again, either it’s additive or it’s not, it’s, you know, it’s not going to be a part of my life. I don’t identify that closely with it anymore, and I enjoy it so much more now.
Rachael Herron: [00:33:51] I love- and I’ve heard you say that before that, that it’s generative and additive and it needs to be that way. I love that I lose track of that a lot. I let things start to take away from me. And that’s one thing I’ve learned by, from going full time is learning to identify the dread when I feel it. And if I’ve got the dread, what does that mean? Where do, what do I need to remove? What do I need to excise to get rid of that dread? and it seems like you found it out really the hard way.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:34:19] For sure. Yeah, it was complete and total burn out. And I don’t want, I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t want other writers or other people to have to burn out completely in order to realize that that’s not necessary, you know.
Rachael Herron: [00:34:33] And hope that people learn from that. I keep seeing people learning and running out, you know.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:34:37] Yeah and also just realizing that it’s sometimes, sometimes in your life, you’re gonna be writing more and sometimes you’re maybe writing less. It’s like the ocean, you know, and breathing. The ocean doesn’t roll in and just keep rolling, I mean the earth would be flooded. Right? It goes in, it goes out, it comes again, it comes out. Sometimes you have to stop. Reset, pause, and then you can resume. But and again, and again, so depending on like those events, like you got your deaths and divorces and marriages and children, and so make space. For those things as well, because again, that’s going to inform your writing and you’re going to create new things depending on what you’re experiencing. So experience it to the full. I honestly, I mean, as horrible as it was, I quit totally when my dad passed. And I remember the day that he passed, I sat in the backyard with my wine at like 10:00 AM and I felt it. I said to myself, I’m going right through the middle on this, right.
Rachael Herron: [00:35:35] Oh, wow.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:35:36] Yeah, I’m gonna feel every single thing, because I, I’m not going to let this you know, back up inside of me and I feel like everything needs to flow. Like
Rachael Herron: [00:35:49] it’s so good and healthy and it’s, it’s not typical, I think,
Vicki Pettersson: [00:35:56] We’re so driven this society by productivity. Like you’re a success if you’re productive, you’re a success and, and I have found success outside of writing, and writing is a part of it. That’s great. But I just, yeah, I just learned the hard way you can’t put all of your eggs in that basket, they will break.
Rachael Herron: [00:36:17] That’s a really good answer to the challenge question. What is your biggest joy when it comes to writing?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:36:23] Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, there’s so many otherwise, why would you keep doing it right? Can I really, really technical? I just did a YouTube. I edited a YouTube video this morning that’s gonna go up tomorrow. I love three-act structure. I love structure. I’m a structure junkie.
Rachael Herron: [00:36:40] Me too.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:36:41] I love planning, I love pre-planning, I love brainstorming. I love mind mapping, I love drawing, I love just gathering all of the flotsam and jetsam you know, of the story into my mind and just because it’s still perfect. Yeah. It’s still potential, right? It doesn’t, I haven’t really read it yet. But to hell with crappy words. Yeah.
Rachael Herron: [00:37:08] I do love that feeling. So you’re a plotter then?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:37:11] Such a plotter. Yes. But I am also found. Okay, so this has been interesting, I will plot out the whole thing. And then I will, I got in at the beginning and the end for sure, right. Some tent pole scenes, and for the three-act structure. And then I will get about a hundred pages in 65 to a hundred and let’s say that first act done, and then I have to re-plot the you know, second and third act again, and then I’ll get the first half of the second act done, and then I’ll have to re-plot again and then I’ll do you know,
Rachael Herron: [00:37:44] That’s exactly what I do. That’s exactly what you.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:37:46] You do? So
Rachael Herron: [00:37:47] Yeah. I don’t, I don’t plot a lot ahead of time. I know the tent poles and that’s just about it. But everything I knew about the tent poles, every time I hit one,
Vicki Pettersson: [00:37:55] yes,
Rachael Herron: [00:37:55] it’s all out the window and I have to redo everything.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:37:57] Yes. So I, I I’ve stopped. I used to be over, over plotter, you know, I need to know every single scene. And now that’s a waste of time because I’m going to chunk it anyway. The ending never changes, ever. Do you know what something else I do, that’s really weird? I will write, I will get all the way up to the climax and then I – to first draft so it’s-
Rachael Herron: [00:38:21] You know what you broke right there and I really want to hear it. You go all the way up to the end, then what?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:38:26] All the way up to the climax, the climactic scene, I’ll either jump over to it to denouement and write that, or I will just not write it and go back to the beginning.
Rachael Herron: [00:38:35] That’s hilarious. That’s exactly what I do.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:38:36] For real?
Rachael Herron: [00:38:38] Exactly. And this is what has happened and the only reason I do it that way now is because I used to spend like an extra month trying to write the ending.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:38:45] Yeah
Rachael Herron: [00:38:46] And then I would just give up, start from the beginning, revise a whole thing, and then I’d know the end. And now I just know that’s part of my process. I get to that point. I go, I can’t do it. I cannot do it. And I, for me, I think that I have to get to know those characters with that first big revision. And I’ve usually put them into such a pickle. But if I could easily write those scenes and I’ve done the book of the service anyway. I wonder I can’t write it, I put their backs up against the wall and I don’t, I don’t even know how to fix it until I find that revision.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:39:12] Yeah. Everything’s still too tangled.
Rachael Herron: [00:39:15] Yes. Yeah
Vicki Pettersson: [00:39:16] So for instance, and I’m sure you do this too. When you get like a quarter of the way through or halfway through and something new pops up and instead of going back in lieu of going back and rewriting it, you just keep writing as if, you know,
Rachael Herron: [00:39:32] Exactly.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:39:33] Right. Okay. So then by the time you get to that ending, it’s all tangled. It’s a mess. And so my brain, I will say this I’m like, it doesn’t feel good in my head. I need to untangle all of those threads and put everything in its goddamn place
Rachael Herron: [00:39:50] in that big second draft.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:39:51] Yeah, am I allowed to curse?
Rachael Herron: [00:39:53] Yes! Absolutely. That horse has left the barn.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:40:03] Literally I don’t do that on Youtube channel so but, but, yeah. Okay. That’s how I do it.
Rachael Herron: [00:40:07] That’s so funny that we’re so similar.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:40:09] Yeah. That makes me feel good.
Rachael Herron: [00:40:12] I know, me too. Okay. So can you share a craft tip with us of any sort?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:40:18] Craft tip. I mean, okay, so one idea for a book, if you’re a beginner and you think I’ll have this great idea, one idea is not enough. You need a great idea and another actually equally good idea and then you need to match those up, and hopefully there’s a third idea that you can shove in there. Like, I don’t think it’s enough to have a good idea. I had an idea about a you know, a PI who went back to solve his own murder and then I had been writing in paranormal. So obviously that’s a paranormal. He was an angel. Okay. So we got an angel, we got a PI and I’m talking like Dick Tracy, I’m talking like, Spencer Tracy, and Katherine Hepburn, like dynamic. I wanted that, but I couldn’t figure out. So I had these two really good ideas that I could smash together, but it wasn’t working. And so, and sitting at the desk all day long was not helping me. So one day I was out running errands and I went to, do you know the story?
Rachael Herron: [00:41:26] No.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:41:27] Okay. So one day I was out running errands and I, I was going to Trader Joe’s and there was a hair salon, one of those cheap super pads or whatever it is right next door. And again, like, I don’t like making plans. And so I won’t, I won’t look at my hair. This is sad. So, but I’ll walk in. And so I walked in and there was a guy I’d never seen before, never met. And I handed over my hair to the person and but I walked in and he had this full sleeve of tattoos and you know, cherries, and doves, and he had he’s wearing a guayabara and he had cigarettes rolled up on his sleeve and cuffed jeans and I’m like, and Pmod in his hair, and I’m like,
Rachael Herron: [00:42:10] Wow.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:42:12] I was like, what are you? What is this? And he’s like, I’m rockabilly, my girlfriend and I need a full-on rockabilly lifestyle. They were, and I was like, tell me more. And so there was my love interest, a modern day reporter rockabilly girl, who could not only understand this guy from the fifties, but like idealized
Rachael Herron: [00:42:33] Yes
Vicki Pettersson: [00:42:34] Love cannon and he would love her. I know, I would chill again and so I walked out with my really good idea, which is really three ideas. And a really lopsided haircut.
Rachael Herron: [00:42:45] I will say the last time I ever went to Supercuts, I ended up crying for like four months. It was so bad,
Vicki Pettersson: [00:42:53] I can see that
Rachael Herron: [00:42:55] but that is amazing. I love that because I really feel like a lot of us, when we start books, we have that one good idea and more starts to come to us. And I always feel like it’s a product of our obsessions too. Like, and there’s that feeling that, and I don’t know if you have this, but there’s a feeling like, well, maybe my next book will be about rockabilly people and there’s that feeling to push it away, like I’ve got to save it. I could save that for something else and my answer to that is never saved anything.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:43:18] Never save anything because you, by using it, you make room to fill up with more experience and more, just more.
Rachael Herron: [00:43:25] And it always backfills. It always, there’s always new stuff rising to the surface. If you are using what you’re given by walking into the Supercuts,
Vicki Pettersson: [00:43:35] You won’t be able to write fast enough.
Rachael Herron: [00:43:37] That’s gorgeous. No, I love that story. Thanks Trader Joe’s for having, for having that place. Oh goodness. Alright, so what thing in your life affects your writing in a surprising way?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:43:53] Okay. I don’t like this answer. You won’t like this answer. Nobody likes this answer.
Rachael Herron: [00:43:56] I can’t wait.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:44:00] Exercise. I know!
Rachael Herron: [00:44:02] I went for a run this morning and it felt really good. And I haven’t been for around like two years.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:44:07] I hate that
Rachael Herron: [00:44:10] It makes everything better.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:44:12] I know. And so you feel better afterwards, like writing, you learned about perseverance, like writing, you have to keep going and just one more step, one more word, when you don’t wanna like writing, yoga will teach me, you know, to stay in the pose. You know, you’re stuck, like not downward dog, cause that’s fun. But like your stuck in triangle pose and you’re like get me out of here. And –
Rachael Herron: [00:44:37] And if you’re in a class, right. And that’s what I miss about going to classes, because I’m stubborn into someone else can see me
Vicki Pettersson: [00:44:44] Yeah
Rachael Herron: [00:44:45] and it hurts. I’ll stay in it all day. But at home I’m like, oh, maybe I could get out of this pose.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:44:51] Me too. Yes. So that teaches you about breathing through it. Right, sticking with it. When I ride a bike, I pretend that I’m in the tour france. I’m like, I’m the only woman ever to be in the men’s tour france because there’s something about my body that is just special. And like, I, you know, like Simone Biles, like there, she has an extra gear, that’s me as a woman in this tour de
Rachael Herron: [00:45:16] And there and you’re going so fast that you can’t even see any of the other guys
Vicki Pettersson: [00:45:20] Guys are like they’re just so upset because I’m like writing and yeah then the music gets more in my ear and I, and so it teaches me about imagination. And that I’m a little bit of a moron, but that’s okay. It’s-
Rachael Herron: [00:45:35] Yoga and biking. Any other thing that you do?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:45:37] Yeah, well, I don’t run anymore because it hurts. And so, what else do I do? I used to play tennis. They don’t do that because my child cannot beat me. So that’s not fun. Super competitive. Yeah. Competitive, anything air hockey I’ll do that, I’ll just. But I like shake the whole table and yell and scream and I throw the paddle at my husband’s head and like, it’s that very active. Yeah. Writing is an active process for me. So like when I’m revising, like I’ll print out a scene and then I’ll put it, spread it out on the high counter top, and I’ll paste, I’ll walk in between, over here
Rachael Herron: [00:46:17] Oh interesting
Vicki Pettersson: [00:46:18] and I can go and sit back down and you know, key it in. But I need, I know it’s active. I’m up and down, I’m moving.
Rachael Herron: [00:46:25] It’s so healthy.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:46:28] I mean, I’m cursing,
Rachael Herron: [00:46:35] Yeah. Also healthy
Vicki Pettersson: [00:46:36] No not really mentally healthy, but yeah, just movement seems to help. So that’s my terrible answer.
Rachael Herron: [00:46:40] No, I think it’s a great answer. And it’s one that I think I would hear more often, but I don’t know if I’ve ever heard it on the show so, glad you said it. What is the best thing you’ve read recently?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:46:51] I’m reading a lot of YA and buy so many YA books and like here, my child it’s for you. For me, it’s so much fun. So I read Maggie Stiefvaters’ The Scorpio Races
Rachael Herron: [00:47:08] How you say, say her name? I never knew that. How was it? I haven’t read her in a while.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:47:12] Oh, but you have read her before?
Rachael Herron: [00:47:14] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:47:15] Lyrical and magical and a writer she’s just writing at the top of her craft. Right. It’s awesome. It’s so awesome. It’s set on this fictional Island where every November, there’s this brutal race. These people raise water horses, but they’re deadly water horses, they take you know, they eat flesh and they, they try to bite the other horses and the other racers, but you know, it’s a lot of money. So, the two protagonists, it’s the dueling protect, not dueling, alternating, dueling, alternating protagonists, and both first person. And, obviously they’re the love interests and they do fall in love, but they both had their own agency and you want both of them to win and they can’t and therein lies the tension.
Rachael Herron: [00:47:58] That’s perfect.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:47:59] Masterful. She’s masterful
Rachael Herron: [00:48:00] Is it a beginning of a series, or is it a standalone?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:48:03] Standalone. So you can just get obsessed and not, knock right through it. Yeah.
Rachael Herron: [00:48:09] I’m going to put that to the top of my TBR pile cause I haven’t read her in a while and she’s so good.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:48:13] She’s so good. And she’s like, I feel like she’s too- I want to be friends with her, but she’s too cool, like she’s kinda like tough and like a tomboy and
Rachael Herron: [00:48:23] she has her own tarot deck; you know?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:48:27] Tarot deck, she plays the bagpipes, she’s an artist.
Rachael Herron: [00:48:28] I didn’t know that
Vicki Pettersson: [00:48:30] Yeah
Rachael Herron: [00:48:31] She’s a fantastic artist. What else? Oh, she builds and drives muscle cars. I mean, like she’s insanely cool. She’s very like singular and I always wish I were that singular. I don’t feel like I’m
Rachael Herron: [00:48:45] I think you are Vicki. I think you are.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:48:47] I don’t feel like I’m that singular
Rachael Herron: [00:48:49] I think that listeners should go check you out and then they will know how singular you are, which is amazing. So tell everybody where you can be found.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:48:59] Well, I hope you do come and check me out over on YouTube because that’s what I’m really trying to do there is build a conversation in a community and if you have questions or comments or anything, you want me to make a video on something just for you, I will do that. It’s, it’s fun. It’s another form of storytelling, but it’s short form.
Rachael Herron: [00:49:19] Yeah
Vicki Pettersson: [00:49:20] You know, it’s very fast and I get a nice adrenaline hit and it’s-
Rachael Herron: [00:49:25] And you’re so engaging, you’re so engaging and you’re so smart about everything that you’re saying.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:49:29] Oh gosh, thank you. Coming from you, that is an amazing compliment. I just think, I’m so happy that we’ve met and we’re in a mastermind together because then I can pretend your mind is my mind and
Rachael Herron: [00:49:42] I could share all of that.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:49:44] Yeah.
Rachael Herron: [00:49:45] Excellent. So where’s your, where’s your website? Is it Vicki Pettersson?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:49:48] Yeah. VickiPettersson.com it’s just in there, you know.
Rachael Herron: [00:49:52] Two T’s and two S’s
Vicki Pettersson: [00:49:54] Yes
Rachael Herron: [00:49:54] Right?
Vicki Pettersson: [00:49:55] Yeah.
Rachael Herron: [00:49:56] Thank you so much for being on the show.
Vicki Pettersson: [00:49:57] My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Bye everybody!
Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/
Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.
Join me.
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