Ep. 181: Jeni McFarland on Writing by Hand

Jeni McFarland holds an MFA in Fiction from the University of Houston, where she was a fiction editor at Gulf Coast Magazine. She’s an alum of Tin House, a 2016 Kimbilio Fellow, and has had short fiction published in Crack the Spine, Forge, and Spry, which nominated her for the storySouth Million Writers Award. She was also a finalist for the 2015 Gertrude Stein Writers Award in Fiction from the Doctor T. J. Eckleburg Review. She has lived in Michigan and the San Francisco Bay Area with her husband and two cats. The House of Deep Water is her first book. 

How Do You Write Podcast: Explore the processes of working writers with bestselling author Rachael Herron. Want tips on how to write the book you long to finish? Here you’ll gain insight from other writers on how to get in the chair, tricks to stay in it, and inspiration to get your own words flowing. 

Transcript

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

[00:00:15] Well, hello writers! Welcome to episode #181 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron and I am thrilled that you’re here with me today as I talked to Jeni McFarland, whose book just came out. It is called The House of Deep Water. I have just started it. It is beautiful and engrossing and engaging and kind of everything that I want to read right now. So I’m very excited that you will get to hear her talking about that process, talking about how she writes by hand, especially in these difficult times for concentration. So I know you will enjoy the interview. 

[00:00:56] In a very quick personal update; Everything is going great around here, which feels honestly very strange to say. I am doing just fine under the stay at home order. We are- it’s May 8th as I record this, in California here, we’re under stay at home orders until at least the 31st and I don’t mind. I really don’t mind. I miss a few things. I miss hugging my sisters and my best friends. I miss my recovery meetings and all that hugs that I get there. I miss swimming and I think that’s it. Otherwise it’s freaking fabulous. I love that everything has been canceled. I don’t have to travel even New Zealand got canceled, which wasn’t coming until August, but, I don’t mind. I, you know, New Zealand will be next year. They want me back next year. So that’ll be great. There’s this level of giddy relief at not having to go out and do things and driving exponentially less. I have started to listen to podcasts in the garden, so I’m actually catching up on podcasts, which was great cause I wasn’t listening to podcasts at all while I wasn’t driving for a while. Speaking of the garden I have been in there, we have a big backyard and it has well, I mean big by Oakland urban concepts, but, it goes down kind of gradual slope and then a steep slope down to the creek. This, this urban creek that’s behind her house and it’s actually, you have to go through two gates to get to it. So it’s kind of the secret creek that we never get to see. The secret bottom part of our yard is covered in ivy in very deep and dense and we never get down in there. I don’t even know if we can open the gate right now. That’ll be a project for another day. But the yard has been full, literally, no exaggeration of weeds up to shoulder height. And every year I get to this point and every year, every year for memory, I lose my mind, call somebody on Craigslist, have somebody come get rid of everything. And then we’ve got a, you know, semi decent yard to plant things in for the rest of the, you know, spring, summer and fall. This year I didn’t, I I’m trying to save money. All of that. And I’ve got, I don’t really have more time, but this week, this week I’ve had more time. Cause my book has been off my plate as it went to my editor. So I’ve spent like the last week out in the garden, most of the weeds are gone. I would say probably 75% of the weeds are gone. It looks great. And I’m building something that I’ve wanted for years and years and years, I’m building a- it’s called a cutting garden. It’s a flower garden that will just be full of riotous flowers in any which way I, I broadcast so the seeds, and it’s called a cutting garden because it’s for cutting it’s for cutting the flowers and filling your house with flowers that you grew.

I don’t know if it’s going to work, but I am getting a cubic yard of soil and compost dumped in my driveway at any moment, which then I will have to wheelbarrow back to the place that I kind of built. It’s going to be probably, it’s going to be slightly recently, like six inches of deep dirt above our ground. And I’m going to do that, I’m putting in automatic watering system with soaker hoses, and I’m also planting vegetables and all the things I normally do. And then, you know, sometimes fail to follow through with, but I’m really having fun with that and with moving my body and I had forgotten what it feels like to move my body. I’ve been working on this book for months and it hasn’t been great weather until recently, and it’s just been so beautiful to be outside and aching and, you know, pulling muscles. And, I’ve got cuts all over my body from walking around the, we have two cit- we have three citrus trees, all of which have thorns and, and you know, pruning those, oh it’s just been so good and yummy and wonderful. So I’ve been having a great time. It’s also exercise, which boosts my mood, who knew, never heard that before. So that’s been great. 

[00:05:17] I haven’t been doing any writing except I wrote a Patreon essay last week about How to Pack Lightly, which hopefully someday we’ll get to do again. I am borderline obsessed right now with eventually taking a trip with no luggage, just the purse and like extra tee shirt and a couple of pair of Joanie’s and go. Wash your clothes every night, when you go to bed. When I can’t sleep, I start thinking about that. I don’t know. I’m, I’m aware to, who’s obsessed with that. I should get my revision letter for Hush Little Baby on Monday from my editor. So I have the weekend to continue to do no writing. I haven’t kind of messing with some essays, but very lightly. And then on Monday, hopefully I’ll get my revision letter, my brain will explode with the trauma of it and what she says I need to fix, by now it’s been out of my hands for a week and a half, two weeks. And by now I’m convinced there’s nothing of worth in it at all. So if she says she likes anything, bonus, and I can revise anything into anything else, so that’ll be fun. But right now I’m enjoying not having that on my plate. 

[00:06:22] What I do have on my plate is that the 90 Days classes, the new three-month batch of classes started this week. And it’s amazing and wonderful and Tuesdays, which is when the classes are. I am just so happy. And somebody in a couple of people in one of the classes said, I love coming to this because I forget everything else. I forget the world. And I am immersed in talking about writing and Tuesdays feel like that to me, I just have this blast of energy, you know, giving and taking inside these classes. And it’s really beautiful. And I’ve mentioned it before, but my super power is gathering amazing people who lift each other up. I don’t know why it always happens to me, but honestly, I was talking about it with my wife one night at dinner and I was like, gosh, I shouldn’t say this out loud. I’ll get a terrible student who just wants to bring the rest of the class down and be insulting and demeaning. And then I thought, wow, no, this is not for Stanford. This is not for Berkeley. This is for me. This is what I teach. I would cheerfully refund that person to get them out of my class. Boom gone. I don’t have to worry about that, cause that never happens. And again, with this group of people, it is amazing, but it’s just been a very positive, very exciting week of real balance, I guess. Cause I haven’t been writing that much. Oh boy. We’ll get back into writing next week. 

[00:07:49] So in any case, I hope that you are finding some joy, finding some way to move your body, finding some way to love your writing. And I hope that you come tell me about it. And right now let’s get into the interview with Jeni McFarland. I know you’re going to enjoy it and we will talk soon my friends. 

[00:08:08] Hey, you’re a writer. Did you know that I send out a free weekly email of writing encouragement? Go sign up for it at www.rachaelherron.com/write  and you’ll also get my Stop Stalling and Write PDF with helpful tips you can use today to get some of your own writing done. Okay, now onto the interview.

Rachael Herron: [00:08:30] Well, I could not be more pleased today to welcome to the show, Jeni McFarland. Hi Jeni!

Jeni McFarland: [00:08:30] Hi, it’s great to be here. 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:32] I’m so happy to have you. Your first book when this airs next week, we’ll be out in the world. I know. So excited to talk to you about this. Okay. Let me give you a little bit of an introduction. First, Jeni McFarland holds an MFA in Fiction from the University of Houston, where she was a fiction editor at Gulf Coast Magazine. She’s an alum of Tin House, a 2016 Kimbilio Fellow, and she has had short fiction published in Crack the Spine, Forge and Spry, which nominated her for the story South Million Writers Award. She was also a finalist for the 2015 Gertrude Stein Writers Award in Fiction from the Doctor T. J.  Eckleburg Review. She has lived in Michigan and the San Francisco Bay area with her husband and two cats. The House of Deep Water, which will be out by the time y’all hear this is her first book and it just looks gorgeous. It’s already in my preorder. I, were trying to get me a copy before we chatted, but because of COVID, couldn’t quite get me one. So yeah. You know, things just aren’t being mailed as much, but- So where are you living now? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:09:42] I moved back to Michigan in October. So and then we bought a house in January just in time to go into lockdown. We were in a tiny apartment before with like boxes, stacked everywhere. So I’m so glad we’re like spread out.

Rachael Herron: [00:09:59] That’s wonderful. And your book is set in Michigan, too. Isn’t it? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:10:03] Yes. 

Rachael Herron: [00:10:04] Yes. I lived in Oakland so I don’t know where you were in the Bay area, but that’s where I’ve been for a lot of years. So-

Jeni McFarland: [00:10:10] Oh okay.

Rachael Herron: [00:10:11] Yeah. So let’s talk to you about writing. Congratulations, first of all on-

Jeni McFarland: [00:10:17] Thank you.

Rachael Herron: [00:10:18] -this year first book, how are you, how are you feeling honestly? I’d love to hear that from new writers, new- new books out in the world writers.

Jeni McFarland: [00:10:26] So honestly like today, I’m feeling great and I’m excited, but I’ve been terribly depressed lately and so I haven’t really like, people are like, are you excited? And I’m like, yeah, but I haven’t really been feeling it. Especially since my book tour was canceled. But yeah, no, I’m feeling good today. I’m excited. 

Rachael Herron: [00:10:47] Good. It’s a very, very strange time to be doing anything in the world, including launching a book. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:10:52] Yes

Rachael Herron: [00:10:53] But some of my friends yesterday, we were on you know, typical zoom writer meeting chatting about the state of the world. And we were all like, this is probably a good time for debut authors. There are people who are really looking for amusement and entertainment and books right now. I know I am so.

Jeni McFarland: [00:11:10] Yeah, that’s true. 

Rachael Herron: [00:11:11] Everything crossed. Well, let’s talk about your writing process since this is a show about that. Can you tell us about your process though? The when and the where and the how, and I’m taking, keeping in consideration. Of course, you’ve just moved into a brand new house, et cetera. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:11:29] Yeah. So I’m still kind of getting my office in line it’s I don’t know. I feel like I need to be surrounded by color and like pretty things when I’m writing and I haven’t had a chance to paint in here or hang drapes or anything like that yet. So it’s like, I, I usually paint in my living room. I’m sorry, not paint. I usually write in my living room these days but hopefully I will, I will get my space in order one of these days. 

Rachael Herron: [00:12:01] Well, it looks pretty with the lamp and the books behind you. So what is that I hear in the background? Is it a bird outside or a tiny kitten?

Jeni McFarland: [00:12:09] Oh yeah. I have, I think it’s a Blue Jay that they’re kind of loud. Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:12:13] I love it. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:12:14] Currently that’s outside. 

Rachael Herron: [00:12:16] I’m going to put a bird feeder up inside of my, in front of my office. I pretty soon I think I want to just be able to watch them. So are you a morning writer afternoon, evening? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:12:23] Afternoon or evening. Oftentimes like lately it’s been at like 11 o’clock midnight. I am not a morning person. I try to sleep through as much of the morning as possible. So yeah, and then when I do get off, I don’t get a lot done before noon.

Rachael Herron: [00:12:42] That is, that is less of a common answer and I always like hearing it. So do you write into the wee hours when nobody else is awake or? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:12:49] Yes. Yeah. Sometimes when I’m, when I’m having a good writing day, I will write from like 11 until 2 and then kind of wandered to bed. 

Rachael Herron: [00:12:58] That sounds so fun.

Jeni McFarland: [00:13:00] I, yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:13:03] I like go to bed at 9, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s such a different thing. And I just think that people who write into the wee small hours are so romantic somehow, like the other day, two days ago, I got up at 3 and I just couldn’t sleep. And then I started writing and one of my best girlfriends that I crossed paths cause she, she usually stays up till 2 or 3 to write. So we kind of saw each other on Twitter as we were seeing shifts in the night. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:13:26] I will say when I was in high school, I used to write in secret, you know, in the middle of the night, cause I was a horrible insomniac and I didn’t want my mom to know. And so I would write by candlelight in the middle of the night, talking about romantic. 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:40] See that is the most romantic vision and it, and I actually remember being a kid and I want to say, some famous heroin in a book, maybe it was Harry at the spy or something would right underneath the covers with a flashlight. And I would take like notebooks underneath the covers with a flashlight. And then I would just feel as stupid as I do some days, like right now, when I write it like this, this is terrible. And then I would go to sleep. But yeah, I love that vision. So what is your biggest challenge when it comes to writing? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:14:08] I’m making myself sit still for, you know, a good chunk of time or making myself stay focused. I haven’t had a lot of focus these days. But yeah. I started in writing this book, I started writing by hand just because otherwise I would, I would, you know, pause, you know, and think for a while and then wander away to Twitter or whatever, if I’m on my computer. But yeah, writing by hand is a little, it’s a little bit easier to stay focused, a little better. 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:38] What is it like when you, because I’ve never written anything long- long hand, what is it like when you bring it in? Do you end up doing revisions on the way into the computer or? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:14:50] Yeah, oftentimes I do I’m so I don’t know. I give myself permission to just write whatever and it can be as crummy or worded as poorly as I want when I’m writing by hand and then I’ll fix it, you know, the first time that I type it up or add, or yeah, 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:05] Was most of the book written that way? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:15:07] I would say… so I- when I started doing that, I had like a, you know, not a full draft, but fairly full first draft. So like the second draft, and subsequent drafts were written that way. 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:23] Wow. So you actually leave the document and go out of it to write another, write the next draft. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:15:29] Yes. Yes, cause I don’t know, like I find that I’m kind of anxious that like, what if I edit something that I want later? So if I just use like a totally new draft, then I, I, I never go back to the old ones, but I just feel more comfortable because they’re there. 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:46] I absolutely agree with that. I actually went back into a draft yesterday to pull out one paragraph, which I think I’ve never done before. But I did have it safely saved as like yesterday’s word document or something. Yeah. Are you a plotter or a pantser when it comes to writing? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:16:00] I’m more of a pantser. I- I’m trying, starting my second novel right now. And I’m trying to find, like I started with an outline and an idea of like where the plot was going to go and it’s not working for me. I think, I dunno, I think I- I’m way more interested in the characters than the plot and like the plot just kind of comments from the characters and like what they would do in a situation so I, I definitely start with character sketches, but not with that plot so much. 

Rachael Herron: [00:16:30] I love that. What is your biggest joy when it comes to writing? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:16:35] Ooh, I love to take a character who might resemble somebody I know, who I just don’t understand and like, just sit down and spend some time with them and try to figure out, figure them out, like figure out what makes them tick or like why they do the things they do.

Rachael Herron: [00:16:54] How much do they end up changing on the page? And I only ask that because sometimes I’ll bar borrow someone I know, and then I write about them for so long that it turns into a completely different person. And I almost forget that I based them on someone. Do you do that or do they kind of stay true? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:17:10] No, they, they tend to take on their own life, which is good cause I feel like then I’m less likely to have people come back later and be like, why did you write that about me? Yeah. 

Rachael Herron: [00:17:20] Yeah, yeah. Which is going to happen anyway. And it’s usually about the wrong people. Yeah. Can you share a craft tip of any sort with us? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:17:29] Oh, a craft tip. That’s very open. I don’t even know where to start 

Rachael Herron: [00:17:35] Very open-ended, oh, I hope that the publicist would have sent these to you, but, but it is okay. Let’s I can help you drill it down. What help- what is it, what is something you do on a, on a regular basis with maybe character that helps you build them? Since your kind of like a character driven person. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:17:53] Yeah. I dunno, I do like to start out just, I- I’ve tried the thing where you, where you write, like you write down what their birthday is and what their favorite color is and their favorite food. And I don’t find that as helpful as like starting with just describing them physically. And then from there, think about, always think about like what their insecurities would be based on the way they look, because we all have those and then,

Rachael Herron: [00:18:20] Oh what a great idea. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:18:22] The way that they try to kind of navigate the world with those, with, you know, whatever their issues are.

Rachael Herron: [00:18:30] That it sounds so simple. And I have never thought of doing that. Like I know how I navigate through the world with my big belly, like, and I know how I stand in order to try to put that away. And I never thought about, you know, giving characters, that kind of thing that they’re either showing or hiding. That’s awesome. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:18:46] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:18:47] That’s really beautiful. I’m sorry to put you on the spot with a question you didn’t see coming there. I apologize. This might, this might also take you back, but what thing in your life affect your writing in a surprising way? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:19:01] Oh, I would say my husband’s going to hate this answer, but I would say him and his moods. So when he’s in a bad mood, I’m, I’m getting better at like kind of shutting his emotions out. But you know, after 11 years of marriage, but I’m still not great at it. So oftentimes like just other and it’s not just him. It’s, it’s other people in general, like other people’s moods when they’re around me, I tend to take on their feelings a little bit.

Rachael Herron: [00:19:33] I feel I have this theory that writers are severe empaths as a general role. So I think that a lot of us struggle with that. Luckily, luckily, my wife is very, very like mood normalized? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:19:50] Oh nice,

Rachael Herron: [00:19:51] Yeah. It’s, it’s nice. But if she weren’t, I can imagine that that would wreak havoc, especially, especially in the times of COVID-19 when we are all in the houses with our significant others, 

Jeni McFarland: [00:20:00] You know what though, he kinda loves working from home. Like, I think he’s happier without a commute. So he’s been in a fairly good mood lately. 

Rachael Herron: [00:20:09] Everyone’s happy without a commute. Aren’t they? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:20:11] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:20:12] Like it’s the best. Good answer. What is the best book that you read recently? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:20:19] I recently finished Tayari Jones’ An American Marriage and it was-

Rachael Herron: [00:20:24] It look so good. Is it?

Jeni McFarland: [00:20:26] Yeah.

Rachael Herron: [00:20:27] What did you love about it?

Jeni McFarland: [00:20:33] So I guess I might be a misanthrope in this way, but I love watching people’s relationships deteriorate. 

Rachael Herron: [00:20:43] Yes

Jeni McFarland: [00:20:44] So just seeing like the, so you know, a little teaser for people, the book is about a man who’s a black man who’s wrongfully incarcerated. And just watching his marriage fall apart was heartbreaking, but also just, I couldn’t stop reading it. 

Rachael Herron: [00:21:02] I run toward those kinds of things and the wifi spoke up. She’s just like, I don’t understand why you’re such a terrible person and I’m like, I’m not, I just love the more uncomfortable and difficult it is, the more I lean in. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:21:17] Yeah. Same here. I feel like if it’s, if it’s a happy book I’m not terribly interested. Like and I taught when I was in grad school and my students were, I told them at the beginning of the semester, I was like, we’re not going to read any happy books, just so you know. And halfway through the semester, they were like, are we ever going to read a happy book? And I was like, were you listening the first day? It’s not going to happen.

Rachael Herron: [00:21:38] But I actually gain- gain happiness by reading those. And by watching difficult television. I, that I gained like

Jeni McFarland: [00:21:45] Yeah, me too. 

Rachael Herron: [00:21:46] So I like that. Okay, so now I would like you to tell us about your book with a little bit of what it’s about, where it can be found all of that. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:21:57] Sure. So my book is briefly it’s about a woman, she’s half black, half white, she’s about 40, she moves back to the small Michigan farm village where she grew up amid financial troubles and she gets there and she moves back in with her father. She gets there and she finds that he has a live in girlfriend, who is a girl that she babysat in high school. And this is right as their neighbor has been arrested for just horrific crimes. And she was one of the victims as a child. So it’s a lot about homecoming and reconciling your past and yeah.

Rachael Herron: [00:22:34] And does it mom come back to, isn’t there? 

Jeni McFarland: [00:22:39] The girlfriend, the living girlfriend’s mom.

Rachael Herron: [00:22:41] The living girlfriend’s mom. Okay. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:22:43] So, and then her mom moves back. Yeah. So it’s these three women coming back to town.

Rachael Herron: [00:22:47] Yeah. Sounds like it is entirely my jam. I cannot wait to read it. It is called The House of Deep Water and that’ll be out by the time you all hear this, it’ll be on all the platforms and all the bookstores. And I would like to encourage people to buy it and go get a curbside pickup from your favorite bookstore. I’m in a point where I’m not buying anything from Amazon right now, nothing for my Kindle, getting the- cause we have to support our independent bookstores right now, as much as possible.

Jeni McFarland: [00:23:13] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:23:14] So people call your independent bookstore. They will love you. They will kiss you from six feet away and leave your package on the curb. So The House of Deep Water. Thank you so much, Jeni. This was fantastic. I wish, I hope all the best for you and that the book just flies from the virtual shelves. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:23:32] That would be amazing. Thank you. 

Rachael Herron: [00:23:34] All right. Take care. Thank you so much. 

Jeni McFarland: [00:23:36] Yeah.

Rachael Herron: [00:23:37] Bye. 

Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.