Ep. 178: Jennifer Louden on Why Bother

JENNIFER LOUDEN is a personal growth pioneer who helped launch the concept of self-care with her first bestseller, The Woman’s Comfort Book. Since then, she’s written six additional books on wellbeing and whole living, including The Woman’s Retreat Book and The Life Organizer, with close to a million copies of her books in print in nine languages. Jennifer has spoken around the U.S., Canada, and Europe, and has appeared on hundreds of TV programs, radio shows, and podcasts—including Oprah. Jennifer teaches women’s retreats and creates vibrant online communities and innovative learning experiences. She lives in Boulder County, Colorado.

Her new book is Why Bother: Discover the Desire for What’s Next – and GO HERE if you purchase it to enter a chance to win!

How Do You Write Podcast: Explore the processes of working writers with bestselling author Rachael Herron. Want tips on how to write the book you long to finish? Here you’ll gain insight from other writers on how to get in the chair, tricks to stay in it, and inspiration to get your own words flowing. 

Transcript

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode #178 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron.

[00:00:22] I’m thrilled you’re here today. I am talking to Jen Louden. She’s been on the show before. She is absolutely fabulous. I- fan girl all over her, it’s a little embarrassing. But I really love the way that she inspires people to do their creative work. She’s really a guru for me, really a mentor. She doesn’t really know that, but, I kind of told her on this episode, but she has a new book out that is a wonderful, and it’s called Why Bother? And, we are always wondering in our heads as writers, why bother? We don’t, like Jen says in the interview, we don’t always say it in that way, but it’s what we’re thinking a lot of the time. So, you’ll love the interview, something that we talked about right when we went off air is that if you listen to this interview and love it, like I think you will, and want to know more about why you should bother to do your writing. If you buy the book and send her team the receipt, you do get interred to win a free retreat spot. In one of the desire retreats, she puts on the best retreats and she, you’ll also get a brand new 5-day live online training program that launches in July. So, the URL for that is jenniferlouden.com/why-bother  and I will put it in the show notes at howdoyouwrite.net. So if you love it, do that. I can highly recommend this book. 

[00:01:48] What’s been going on around here? Well, still in lockdown. I have to say I’m still loving it. I am that embarrassing person who wishes this was not happening with all of my heart. The world is falling apart. Everything is a tragedy. However, right here in my seat, things are good and I am so grateful and I have not had a day off in 26 days, and I just realized that earlier today because I’ve been so happy in my work. I have been in revision heaven. I’ve just been living there, people I’ve been talking about it, but it’s been so good. And I did deliver my book to my editor yesterday, which is Wednesday. She actually sent me an email that says, you can have till Friday, I’m not going to read it, you know. So you have till Friday at 5:00 PM and I was like, no, I’ve got it. I’ve got to get this off my desk. Here you go. And I gave it to her. But the book, I have fallen in love with as I always do during the revision process. It is fun. It is exciting. It is definitely the most exciting book I’ve ever read. Even in revision, I was kind of flipping pages quickly because I couldn’t wait to read the next part even though I had written it and I was revising it. I think it’s exciting. I don’t know. It might be too exciting. She might get me my revision letter that says, you know, take a lot of the blood out gory, crazy woman, but it’s a thriller after all. And I’ve been having just the total ball with it. So that’s done. 

[00:03:26] I have been working all day, I’m trying to return emails that I just pile up when I was on revision book deadline, and I put this on Twitter, but I can just highly recommend an auto responder for any time in your life. You don’t have to go on vacation. You don’t have to be doing anything special. Anytime in your life that you want to make mail less of a priority, set up an auto responder. My auto responder simply said, “I am not really responding to email right now. I will after April 23rd when the book is turned in, if it’s urgent, respond urgent in the reply line and I will look at it.” And one person did that because it was a time sensitive thing nobody else did. Nobody else cares. It is really nice. I think it’s polite when somebody sends you an email and you send them an auto responder that says, I’m kind of out of it right now. I’m not going to get back to you quickly. If you have anxiety during this pandemic, set up an auto responder that says that dealing with anxiety during this pandemic, if this is urgent, reply with a subject line urgent. Otherwise, I will get to you when I can. People who care about you are going to appreciate that. I can hear you, business types who work at important companies rolling your eyes. You can’t do that. I understand you can’t do that. If you, if you’re struggling under the weight of email from your work, you can’t do that. But if you are a sole proprietorship like I am, do it! Do it. Email. The killer of joy, the soul sucking, suck it dude. Except of course, when I hear from writers, or fans or anybody like that, that makes email always, always worth it. And I have been getting some incredible emails lately from people who are writing, who are struggling to get their writing time, who are getting some done. And I always, always appreciate hearing from you. It always makes my day, and I’ve been getting some really, really cool ones lately, so that has been fabulous.

[00:05:26] What else is going on? Oh, I think I mentioned it last week that, Rachael Says Write, where we write together two hours on Tuesday morning, two hours on Thursday afternoon. Right after I record this, we’re going to be doing the first Thursday afternoon writing and honestly, it’s been making me so happy all day knowing that I’m going to see people and sit in a room with them to gather virtually. It feels like we’re together and write for two hours. If you have any interest in that, you can always go to rachaelherron.com/write and check that out. But it’s really fun. So there’s that. My book is turned in. I’m happy, I’m healthy, my family is healthy. I hope that your family is healthy. I hope that you are getting some writing done and if you are not, that you are giving yourself a gosh darn break. And I want to say, officially, ‘cause I don’t think I’ve said it in a long time. I’m really thankful for you all, especially if you’re listening to this right now. The listenership for podcasts has gone down a lot, as people just don’t commute anymore. Like I only ever listen to podcasts in my car, so I’m only listening to one or two a week right now because I am not listening to podcasts and I’ve also just been revising my ass off. But if you’re listening right now, thank you, thank you. Thank you for prioritizing this show. I hope that I give you what you need, and if I’m not, let me know. Tell me what you need. Ask me some questions. I am going to have a mini episode coming out sometime this week on MFA programs, and what kind of education you need to be a writer. So keep your eye out for that. For some reason, three people this week asked me intently. What I think about MFAs and I have some opinions to share with you, so that’ll be coming out soon. But right now I would like you to enjoy this time with Jen Louden who inspires me, and I hope that she inspires you to get your writing done. So I will talk to you soon. Reach out anytime. Tell me how you’re doing, and happy writing.

[00:07:35] Do you wonder why you’re not getting your creative work done? Do you make a plan to write and then fail to follow through, again? Well, my sweet friend, maybe you’d get a lot out of my Patreon. Each month I write an essay on living your creative life as a creative person, which is way different than living as a person who been just Netflix 20 hours a week and I have lived both of those ways, so I know. You can get each essay and access to the whole back catalog of them for just a dollar a month, which is an amount that really, truly helps support me at this here writing desk. If you pledge at the $3 level, you’ll get motivating texts for me that you can respond to, and if you pledge at the $5 a month level, you get to ask me questions about your creative life that I’ll answer in the mini episodes. So basically, I’m your mini coach. Go to patreon.com/rachael R A C H A E L to get these perks and more. And thank you so much. 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:36] Well, I could not be more pleased to welcome back to the show today, Jennifer Louden. Hi Jen!

Jennifer Louden: [00:08:42] Hello!

Rachael Herron: [00:08:44] It’s such an exciting week to talk to you. You had a brand new book launch, just came out. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:08:50] I did.

Rachael Herron: [00:08:51] I got a little preview of this book. I think it’s marvelous. Let me give you a little intro and then we’re going to talk about this book, which is why I put you back on the show.

Jennifer Louden: [00:08:57] Thank you so much.

Rachael Herron: [00:08:59] Oh my gosh. Jennifer Louden is a personal growth pioneer who helped launch the concept of self-care with her first bestseller, The Women’s Comfort Book. Think about that people launched the concept of self-care. Since then, she’s written six additional books on wellbeing and whole living, including The Women’s Retreat Book and The Life Organizer, with close to a million copies of her books in print in nine languages. Jennifer has spoken around the U.S., Canada, and Europe, and has appeared on hundreds of TV programs, radio shows, and podcasts–including Oprah. She teaches women’s retreats and creates vibrant online communities and innovative learning experiences. She lives in Boulder County, Colorado. And the reason I just love you, Jen, is that you are so authentic and I am a fan.

Jennifer Louden: [00:09:46] Oh, thank you.

Rachael Herron: [00:09:47] Like I am one of those people who follows you because you routinely inspire me and challenge me to be a better person, to take care, better care of myself, and to believe in myself and my own creativity. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:10:00] I’m so glad because you should. 

Rachael Herron: [00:10:02] Yeah. It’s wonderful. It’s wonderful. So I’m so thrilled that you are back so I’ve got a bunch of questions for you, but first of all, I basically want to talk to you about your new book. It is called, Why Bother? And I have to tell you that, I was in one of your retreats, in one of your online retreats and, you were talking about, I think you were revising Why Bother at that point and I remember thinking, “Oh my God, I can’t wait till it comes out. I need that book.” I would love to know what basically, what, Why Bother? is about, why did you write it?

Jennifer Louden: [00:10:32] Yeah. I’ll start with why I wrote it. I wrote all my books in a pretty short period of time, so I wrote a book every year or two years, and I really made my living almost primarily from writing, which we know is amazing. I didn’t know how amazing it was. But then is the book business changed and I started to teach more and develop, I developed more of a business around my books, but the real reason I did that was I didn’t have another book in me. And so it’s been 11 years functionally since I wrote a book. We’ve done new additions of books. I did a little sort of throw away kind of project for national geographic. It was a journal, so there’s been things that I put out, but I didn’t want to write another self-help book. So in that time I wrote novels that didn’t work because I didn’t really write them, not because there wasn’t a lot of good stuff in them, but which still remains a mystery to me. And I wrote a 500 pages of a memoir that failed as a memoir. And again, great stuff and it didn’t hold together as a whole, and out of that struggle came, this book. And out of that failed memoir in particular came that book and then after the failed memoir, and there was, other failed books in there, I did make attempts to write other self-help books. I would get an idea, send it to my agents, and that’s a great idea, write a book proposal, that I would never write the book proposal. Because there’s something about the way I’m wired, which I don’t particularly like, which is I have to really, I have to love it. I have to believe in it. I have to be learning about it. It has to be coming from someplace very deep in me. I could never write on assignment, for example. And so after the memoir fail, I hired Jenny Nash as my book coach. She’s a wonderful, wonderful person, a wonderful book coach. And she coached me, she was like, Hey, let’s take scenes from the memoir and you’ll write, she came up with the title lessons, the self-help guru had to teach herself. And I wrote a great book proposal and I said to my agent and this, could I just say major complaint here, so when my sign with my agent, she was, she was starting out, she was young. She’s since become a super powerhouse agent, and so she took –I believe if I remember it was five weeks to tell me that she couldn’t –she no longer represented self-help books. 

Rachael Herron: [00:12:55] No, 

Jennifer Louden: [00:12:56] She only represented fiction now. Now why, she couldn’t have told me that? Let’s say a week, you know, I know everybody’s email boxes are full. So she said, but I’ll show, I’ll give it to other agents in the agency. I’m like, they’re going to be like, oh my God, I couldn’t have Jennifer Louden’s. They all turned it down. They all turned it down, but I was like, no, who cares? I don’t care. I’m going to write the book, I wrote, I’ve worked on it for maybe another six, eight weeks, and I realized it wasn’t working and it was really a blessing that they turned it down because I was trying to force the material into Jenny’s idea, which was a good idea, but it wasn’t my idea. You’re shaking your head, yes, you’re nodding your head. I get itchy and scratch mixed up too. So then out of that, Jenny was, you know, kind of like, wow, alright, great. What do we do? What would you write? And that’s when this book came out in a month, and I think I’ve been trying to re-write it Rachael for maybe 15, 18 years. I found pages that I sent my first agent. I felt, I found like 40 pages that I sent her that really has some of the same themes. 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:03] That’s so fascinating. And the thing is that when I first started talking about the Why Bother book, it seems like the book that should have always been out there,

Jennifer Louden: [00:14:12] I know, it has that feeling

Rachael Herron: [00:14:13] or maybe walking around this idea, but you really nailed this thing that I think so many of us struggle with this idea of why bother. How long did it take you after you decided to write it, to write it? It doesn’t seem like it took you very long. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:14:29] It didn’t, and that’s only happened to me a couple times in my life. I think I wrote it, I mean, I’m terrible at time. I’d have to go back and look, but I want to say like maybe seven months to write in six months, and then the first, the first you know, two drafts that I gave it to beta readers, then I did another rewrite and then I gave it to my editor. 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:47] That’s fantastic. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:14:48] Yeah. 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:49] So, speaking of this book, what are, there’s some questions people should ask themselves if they want to see if they need to bother, basically.

Jennifer Louden: [00:15:01] I think-

Rachael Herron: [00:14:52] Do I need to bother?

Jennifer Louden: [00:15:03] Yeah. The thing that I really don’t think I got in the book enough or maybe it’s just become more clear to me after, I, this is the part I know I didn’t get in the book. You’re probably not going to use the words, Why bother? You’re probably

Rachael Herron: [00:15:14] Yeah

Jennifer Louden: [00:15:15] You’re going to say something like, there’s no point. It’s already been done. She can’t change. She will never listen to me. My boss sucks. I’m not even going to show up for that. Why? I was doing a podcast earlier today and the author was like, I have you in my head, Jen Louden, as why I shouldn’t bother to write self-help books. And I’m like, no damn spot out. So it’s gonna show up for all of us, but we’re going to language it in our own way. And so the thing that I really just the main idea to take away is start noticing where are you doing it because you’re not actually answering the question. You think you know the answer. Rachael has already written it, so there’s no point for me to write it. Spanx started spanx so there’s no point for me to start my business. Please don’t start a business with spanx.

Rachael Herron: [00:16:05] We’re not gonna do that, these are signature writers. Yeah

Jennifer Louden: [00:16:08] Exactly 

Rachael Herron: [00:16:09] I think there are- the biggest why bothers though that I hear from my students and that I honestly feel in my heart over and over for every single book are, are two things. I’m not good enough, 

Jennifer Louden: [00:16:24] Yes. 

Rachael Herron: [00:16:25] And who is going to care. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:16:28] Yes. And those are actually amazingly positive questions to ask when you connect them to your desire and to a growth mindset.

Rachael Herron: [00:16:38] Talk to me about that. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:16:40] Well, okay, because when you’re asking him the way that you and I have asked him and everyone else, at some point in your life, again, you think you know the answer, I’m not good enough. Well, maybe you’re not good enough yet, but why couldn’t you become my friend when I wrote my first book Goldman’s cover, my editor will tell you, you could call her up and she will say, Jennifer couldn’t write. I couldn’t write. I couldn’t spell. I’m dyslexic. I have serious learning disabilities. It didn’t stop me. Right? And then I had to keep learning to write. I think that’s like when I learn to write. I’ve been making my living as a writer for nearly 30 years, and how much time would I have saved myself if I hadn’t felt ashamed about that? This is a fixed thing that can change. Of course you can learn and grow, but why do you want to learn and grow? Do you want to learn and grow because you love language? Great. Go for it. My friend will come over here when I’m done and we’re going to sit on the front porch of social distancing of eight feet away. She loves lang – she’s an amazing natural writer. She loves language. She loves description. She writes to go into our alternative worlds. Great, that would not motivate me. That is not a desire of mine. I like to read it, but I don’t want to – I’m not motivated to create that. Are you motivated to create incredible suspense? Are you motivated to, you know what, what is your desire and then how do you break it down where you can actually learn it and practice it? Why couldn’t you? If people can learn to play tennis or golf or sing opera, you can learn to do this. 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:12] Yeah

Jennifer Louden: [00:18:13] Why should people care? Well of course, you have to ask why should people care.

Rachael Herron: [00:18:17] Yeah.

Jennifer Louden: [00:18:19] But why do you think you know the answer is no? They won’t care. That is absolute silliness! 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:26] It comes out of fear though, right? I mean, fear is at the, at the root of all of this, when we think that people won’t care because we’re talking about it or because we can’t. For me, I feel like everything comes down to fear and love. And fear is oftentimes the opposite of love. And, and when I’m stalling on something, or when I see students styling, I like to ask what portion of fear, where is fear in this? Where is that fear sitting? And with your book, I just think you’ve done such a good job of breaking down some of these ways to get into, Why bother? Why, why should I do this? How do I do it? And if you don’t mind, I would love you to tease a little bit of about the six session- sections. This will, hopefully, this will not prevent anyone from buying it. You will make them need to go buy the book, Why Bother? But you have leave behind ease and settle desire become by doing. Can you say a few words about leave behind? What do you mean by leave behind? 

Jennifer Louden: [00:19:23] Okay. Well, we just talked about two stories that you writers have to leave behind. 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:27] Yeah. Yeah. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:19:28] You have to. And I’m not saying it’s permanent or immediate or magical, like, Oh, if I could do that for you, baby. But it is actually, you have to actually say, what if I didn’t hold onto that so tightly? Because we hold on these beliefs stories about where it’s too late, I don’t have the talent, nobody will care, because they keep us defended. They keep us defended. Just like we wanted to stay defended when something was going to eat us. It serves the same process in our brains and purpose. Excuse me. So leaving behind is beginning to go, what, what about my present? Am I selling out? Am I blocking? Am I giving up on because I’m holding onto that, that, that I had or that that I think I can’t have or I’m not capable of? And just getting a little bit of help. That’s the first step. The second step is ease in and really it’s some different tools to begin to get a connection to desire again. It’s just beginning to warm up a little bit. So one of them, for example, is I matter. And I think this is a huge part of what you’re talking about, that we need to do as writers. 

Rachael Herron: [00:20:43] Yes and honestly, Jen, you are so, this is one of your super powers, is helping people believe I matter. So talk a little bit more about that.

Jennifer Louden: [00:20:52] You know, at its core when we decide not to think we know the answer to our false why bother questions, we’re making an act of sovereignty and agency. When we believe that there’s, nobody’s going to care. We’re saying, I’m getting my, my chance to get people to care about my writing away. I’m giving it away to They, capital T, right. Wherever they are. I used to do that. I used to say I’m not a real writer. I write self-help. I’m not, the New York times will never review me, so I’m not a real writer. Oh my God. Talking about giving away my agency, I matter. And then, then I don’t have to actually do the work of learning to write better, of developing my ideas of saying, here’s what I think. Here’s what you think. Not agree with me. Oh my god, what if you don’t agree with me?

Rachael Herron: [00:21:48] That is why I, I honest, I, I think I only learned this in the last, I’m only realized just in the last few years, but the reason I spent seven years not writing before I really, really, you know, after I got my degree and just couldn’t write was because it was so important to me and I was worried that the one thing that was most important to me

Jennifer Louden: [00:22:05] Yes.

Rachael Herron: [00:21:06] I would say, left. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:22:07] Yes

Rachael Herron: [00:21:08] If I really tried it, I never could have verbalized that.

Jennifer Louden: [00:22:10] So here, I know we’re doing the steps, but I just, I want to respond to that if I can

Rachael Herron: [00:21:15] Yeah

Jennifer Louden: [00:22:16] Freeze it for a second step there, everybody for a second. And have really been experiencing a bit of a cluster you know what, around this book launch, because it’s happening in a pandemic. And by the way, if one more person tells me it’s the perfect book for a pandemic, I may have to scream, which is a perfect book for a pandemic, requires people to know that it exists. Like, you know, it’s very, very loud out there right now with the geo and chief. And so I got really depressed. And really disappointed and really frozen because I’ve had to cancel my book tour because all of these things, I was planning all the media attention I thought I would get none of it. Zero, it’s nothing we were doing. Meeting in my email list hasn’t been responsive in terms of sales. I was heartbroken and pissed and then I had to take my own advice, which is comes to your being stuck for seven years, is that care in that I put into this book, that’s my desire. Nobody can take that away from me. Nobody can take away that I showed up over and over again for all those years until I squeeze this out of myself.

Rachael Herron: [00:23:22] Wow

Jennifer Louden: [00:23:23] Nobody can take that away from me. And if nobody reads the book in the numbers that I hope, I’ll be disappointed and sad, but that doesn’t change that I did the work and I showed up. 

Rachael Herron: [00:23:34] And the product exists in the form that it does in this cordless way that is going to continue. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:23:41] Exactly, It’s not a loaf of bread. As I say, 

Rachael Herron: [00:23:43] It-it’s not all that. I didn’t read your women’s comfort books, you know, took years after it was 

Jennifer Louden: [00:23:50] Yeah it’s still in print that book, 1992 I still get these little royalty checks. I get like these $400 royalty checks 

Rachael Herron: [00:23:55] Yes!

Jennifer Louden: [00:23:56] Every time I’m like, Oh, that’s so adorable. Anyway, back to the steps. 

Rachael Herron: [00:24:00] Okay. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:24:01] The next one is settle.

Rachael Herron: [00:24:02] Settle. Yeah.

Jennifer Louden: [00:24:04] And not settled for, but settled down. 

Rachael Herron: [00:24:07] I love this.

Jennifer Louden: [00:24:08] You know, we just can look at your life and you can, how many days can go by and you feel like, I was, all I spent those days doing was being distracted was, was, was this news alerts coming across my phone or my computer or somebody texting me and when was the last time I settled and calm my nervous system and really just let myself be the discipline of being. And there’s nothing that you get out of this. It’s not because, Oh, and then you’re going to be elated or enlightened, or then you’re going to know what’s next. But without it, you can’t get your ball on. 

Rachael Herron: [00:24:42] Yes

Jennifer Louden: [00:24:43] So, you know, it’s almost like negative space in a painting. 

Rachael Herron: [00:24:46] Yeah. Oh, what a beautiful way to put it. It’s not something that people notice, but it has to be there. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:24:52] It has to be there.

Rachael Herron: [00:24:53] Yeah. I talk a lot about meditation to everyone, and you know, is that, is that how you get your settle on? 

Jennifer Louden: [00:25:00] You know, I have had an on and off meditation practice since I was very young. I’ve had, I had a dedicated Austin practice for a long time. A lot of times now, believe it or not, I do it when I’m running.

Rachael Herron: [00:25:14] Yeah, totally, totally. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:25:15] Or I’ll run up this trail, which we’re not going up right now because it’s too narrow and you can’t get away from people. And I’ll do the half at the halfway mark there off the trail a -ways is a rock that no one can see me on, and I’ll go and sit there. That’s what one of my favorite settle places. I really, really am craving that time right now. And it’s even though we have a whole house with just the two of us and the dog, it all feels like home space and workspace, you know? 

Rachael Herron: [00:25:42] Yeah

Jennifer Louden: [00:25:43] So I really, I’m really missing that now. I often seem like I need to get away to find it, but I definitely found it in meditation, Yoga and hydra. 

Rachael Herron: [00:25:51] Yeah. Yeah. I actually, I’m going to regret, I’m going to regret admitting this, but the other day I was out in the backyard picking up dog poop. I turned it into an Asana. I’m just like, what does it feel like when I stretch my arm this way and I crouch? 

Jennifer Louden: [00:26:06] I love it

Rachael Herron: [00:26:07] It was really beautiful. It was the best time I’ve ever had.

Jennifer Louden: [00:26:10] I can do it. I can settle dancing. 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:13] Yes, yes. Okay. What about desire? 

Jennifer Louden: [00:26:16] Desire is really the core idea of the book, and the subtitle is discovered the desire for what’s next, and it’s almost as if there needs to be a – it’s, it’s almost a coding, you know? It’s almost, it’s where our minds go is what’s, okay, great. Tell me what’s next. Tell me how I’m going to care about my writing. Tell me how I’m going to sell a lot of books. That’s not what it’s about. When we find ourselves in whatever flavor or intensity of why bother, we’re in, what we need is a relationship, a new, fresh innocent, trusting relationship with our desire. It is not about figuring out what’s next. It is about discovering the desire for what’s next. So this is really the core of the book. What is it that you will have about writing? What is it that you desire about writing? There’s probably a stickiness and a heat to it and a feeling that you, like you, kind of touch it and then it gets away from that desire. Can you let the energy flow? Can you work through some of your fears and restrictions and stories about why it’s not okay? Because we all have those, especially women, right? The Juno create Christian culture has told us that, “Hey man, we’re the root of all evil” the women’s desire is the root of all evil. So it is so common for women that I’ve worked with for all these years to say, I don’t want anything. I don’t know what I want. I’m okay with want though, I mean, they won’t even say that. They won’t even say it’s not okay to want. I don’t want anything. 

Rachael Herron: [00:27:40] I don’t think they know it. A lot of times. It’s something they have to learn

Jennifer Louden: [00:27:43] Absolutely. Absolutely. You have to learn to have a relationship with desire and even see how all these things fit together, right? And then after desires become by doing, it’s not figured out. It’s not like a plan. It’s not a, you know, start to have experiments, start to expand your emotional immune system and start to see that it’s safe to desire and taste it, and, and, and take action on it in small ways. And then the last one is be seen, which is a huge one for writers, right? It’s huge. Can I believe that because we’re social creatures that we cannot continue to get our bother on, if we don’t share it in some way

Rachael Herron: [00:28:21] Yeah, 

Jennifer Louden: [00:28:23] And I believe that about writing. I believe writing needs to be shared. When people come to me and say, I’m writing for myself, I always get a little like, oh really?

Rachael Herron: [00:28:31] I actually, I’ve never seen anybody stick to it. They say it and they believe it. After, after, after it’s written and revised, then comes that expansion into some people can’t get past that thought until it’s revised, 

Jennifer Louden: [00:28:44] You’re so, right. Oh my gosh, I haven’t seen so many women. I’ve seen so many people do this, 

Rachael Herron: [00:28:50] But I also never argue with them. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:28:51] Oh yeah, I was totally fine. You want to write just for yourself, great! But then I have this concept and when I teach you under stretch to connect, to like, well, just imagine that you’re stretching for someone else to understand. They wouldn’t actually know what your dog looks like. So you don’t have to bring us in a little bit more, but just for you, nobody else, never going to read it. 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:12] That’s really awesome. Okay, so what is, where do you get that spark every day to continue doing this work? 

Jennifer Louden: [00:29:21] You know, some days I don’t. Some days I get it from toast, 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:28] From toast today

Jennifer Louden: [00:29:30] We’re singlehandedly keeping the bakery in our neighborhood for snacks. I’m like, okay. My rule was the day the bread came in the house I would have a feast. Now it’s like the rule is three times a day. Welcome, Covid-19 So, you know, for me the big issue right now is two things. I got really burned out at the end of last year. I worked really hard last year to make the money to pay for this book because you don’t know, when you look at it, but it’s actually self-published. It’s called a bespoke come up with it. So they act like a publisher. They pack like a publisher. 

Rachael Herron: [00:30:12] The hybrid model, yeah.

Jennifer Louden: [00:30:13] No, they’re not a hybrid model. 

Rachael Herron: [00:30:14] Not Hybrid? Okay.

Jennifer Louden: [00:30:15] No. They’re really like, you pay the bills, they have a great, they get distribution. I mean, it looks exactly like a book. 

Rachael Herron: [00:30:22] That’s what you need it’s for the distribution.

Jennifer Louden: [00:30:24] Yeah, so it looks exactly like a book. It was exactly the same process out of all the big five and everybody, else except, I pay the bills. So that was scary. It’s been a shit ton of money and so I worked really hard last year to make most of that because I knew, you know, this is a gamble. This is a financial gamble I’m taking, and we’ll see if it pays off or not. Stay tuned. So there’s still some of it that I have this year, unfortunately, which is like, it was all going to be fine. And 

Rachael Herron: [00:30:53] Yeah, yeah. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:30:54] So I got really burned out in the last year. I took a few weeks off. I thought I was better, but it’s really hard for me to put myself out there. It’s hard to be bugging people to share about the book, bugging people to have me on their podcast. No, all of this, it’s really draining. So right before the pandemic I was kinda like I’m really burned out again. So I’m having to really sink into what do I want promoting this book to look like? What are, what do I desire? What do I do? So I’m having to walk my own talk and, so that looks like not sitting here in front of the computer too much. It looks like not, it’s a big unknown right now, but I’m listening really closely. 

Rachael Herron: [00:31:38] I really have a very firm belief that this book matters. And this book was meant to be out there, and this is the book that people have been looking for, and there are many books that people are looking for, but this is the one that I have been looking for. You know?

Jennifer Louden: [00:31:50] Oh, thank you

Rachael Herron: [00:31:51] It happened to write it for me, so thank you

Jennifer Louden: [00:31:53] Thank you. You’re so welcome. I still, I do in mind. 

Rachael Herron: [00:31:38] It is available everywhere. It’s called, Why bother? What’s the subtitle again? I forgot again. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:32:01] Discover the desire for what’s next. 

Rachael Herron: [00:32:04] Oh, and everybody just go grab it. Honestly, it is such a treat and a joy to talk to you, and I just want to thank you again for being, you know, you’re, you’re this like spiritual mentor that you don’t know, you know, we don’t know each other well, we’ve talked a couple of times. But just I hope that you know that when you send things out there are people like me, like “Oh boy, oh boy.”

Jennifer Louden: [00:32:25] That’s so, you know how important that is to tell another writer. So thank you so much. 

Rachael Herron: [00:32:30] Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:32:32] Oh no, thank you 

Rachael Herron: [00:32:33] Alright. Hang in there. Have a lot more bread. That sounds wonderful and everything to you may have fly from the shelves. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:32:41] Thank you

Rachael Herron: [00:32:42]. Bye, Jen. 

Jennifer Louden: [00:32:44] Bye Rachael. 

Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.