Archives for April 2020

Chanel Cleeton is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of Reese Witherspoon Book Club pick Next Year in Havana and When We Left Cuba. Originally from Florida, Chanel grew up on stories of her family’s exodus from Cuba following the events of the Cuban Revolution. Her passion for politics and history continued during her years spent studying in England where she earned a bachelor’s degree in International Relations from Richmond, The American International University in London and a master’s degree in Global Politics from the London School of Economics & Political Science. Chanel also received her Juris Doctor from the University of South Carolina School of Law. She loves to travel and has lived in the Caribbean, Europe, and Asia. 

How Do You Write Podcast: Explore the processes of working writers with bestselling author Rachael Herron. Want tips on how to write the book you long to finish? Here you’ll gain insight from other writers on how to get in the chair, tricks to stay in it, and inspiration to get your own words flowing. 

Transcript

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode 173 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron and I’m so pleased that you’re here with me today. 

Today we are talking to the awesome Chanel Cleeton and she was wonderful. I loved her book Next Year in Havana, which you might’ve read. It’s pretty big book and I really enjoyed how she talked about planning her life, but maybe not her writing. So I know that you are going to enjoy listening to that. This will be a very short intro because, I have so much to do. I’m a little bit behind in everything and the news is big. The news is bad. The news is scary. So I want to remind you to get your writing done. Writing is a very true and real place where we can lose ourselves and kind of walk away from what the world is shouting. I urge you to put down the phone, stop reading the headlines. Take some really deep breaths, maybe do a little bit of meditation sink into that book that you have been putting off reading. That is what I’m doing right now, and it’s been marvelous and honor yourself as a writer. Maybe read one of those writing books that you have up there on the shelf.

As we are practicing social distancing, yeah, that’s a great time to be purchasing. Reading and telling other people about books. So we are going to continue to do that on this show. I’m going to tell you about a book right now that you might not know is out there because I’m very bad at self-promotion. It is called Letters to A New Author, and basically it’s a compilation of a lot of my emails that I have sent encouraging writers, and right now you can get a free preview of it just to see what it’s like I think it’s probably the first 30 pages or so of those letters, and it’s a great thing to do. To read if you are social distancing, which for me is hard to pronounce, social distancing, you can get a- it free, by going to www.rachaelherron.com/letters, totally free. Or you can just go to any of your favorite E-book tailors and look for Rachael Herron letters to a new author. And I hope you enjoy that. 

All else as well around here, I’m working at home, which makes it very hard to write my words. I’m just such a terrible first draft writer at home and I just have to suck it up and do it. Just like you do, just like writers have to do. It’s part of our job to get it done when it’s hard. So I’m experimenting with different places in the house for me to try writing. My next spot is going to be the corner of the kitchen table. I mean the dining room table, which I’ve never sat at before. So that can also be really helpful to just change perspective a little bit. I am also, oh, I’m teaching a class at Berkeley this weekend. It is now switched to zoom, so I must kind of change my teaching outline, which I need to do right after this. I’m very much looking forward to teaching that one though. It’s one of my favorites on preparing to publish. What do you need to know about traditional publishing versus a- indie slash self-publishing, and how do you decide which way to go? So I’m going to be working on that, and I hope that you are getting some of your own writing done and I hope that you are finding some peace. Somewhere from all of the noise. It’s important. Take care of you. That is what I’m going to urge you to do right now, today and tomorrow and the next day. Take care of yourself so that we can take care of everyone else. It’s really important. So I send love and hope and fun and get some writing done, and then find me wherever I am on the internet and tell me how it went, okay? I’ll talk to you soon, my friend. 

Hey, how’s your writing going? Do you swing from word to word like the sentence monkey you are in the enchanted book jungle? or is writing a slog? Maybe you’re not even writing. Let me suggest this: The stronger your resistance is to doing something, the more important it is for you to do. You need a community, and I have one for you. Join my ongoing Tuesday morning writing group from 5:00 to 7:00 AM Pacific standard time. We get together and we write together each week for two hours, and we spend most of that time really writing. Yes, that’s hella early for you, west coast Americans much easier for you, Europeans. But you can do it. You write with company, you get to talk to your peers about what you’re working on, and having that kind of support is invaluable. Go to www.rachaelherron.com/Tuesday  for more information. 

Rachael Herron: [00:05:12] Well, I could not be more pleased today to welcome to the show Chanel Cleeton. Hi Chanel!

Chanel Cleeton: [00:05:18] Hi!

Rachael Herron: [00:05:19] I am thrilled, thrilled to talk to you. I loved the Next Year in Havana, and I just was like. that was one of the brilliant things about doing the show is I get to bring on writers that I love. So, fantastic. Let me give you a little bit of an introduction here. Chanel Cleeton is the New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of Reese Witherspoon Book Club pick Next Year in Havana and When We Left Cuba. Originally from Florida, Chanel grew up on stories of her family’s exodus from Cuba following the events of the Cuban Revolution. Her passion for politics and history continued during her years spent in England where she earned a bachelor’s degree in International Relations from Richmond, The American International University in London, and a master’s degree in Global Politics from the London School of Economics and Political Science. That is very fancy sounding. Chanel also received her Juris Doctorate from the University of Southern South Carolina School of Law. She loves to travel and has lived in the Caribbean, Europe, and Asia. Well, welcome. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:06:19] Thank you

Rachael Herron: [00:06:20] So tell me a little bit about what your life looks like right now. Are you writing full time or are you, yeah?

Chanel Cleeton: [00:06:28] I do. Yes. So I’m writing full time, I’ve been writing full time for a while which- which kind of helps, keep up with everything, so, 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:36] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we had to push this episode because illness has been going around in, and you’ve got at least one child. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:06:45] I do. Yeah. 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:46] Yeah. So that’s, I love talking to mothers cause I do not know how you do it. So, and that’s why we’re going to be talking about process, which is my favorite thing to chat about. How do you get it done? What is your personal writing process?

Chanel Cleeton: [00:06:59] It really varies by book and I will say, you know, it changes in terms of all the other obligations. I think that’s one of the things I didn’t really realize when I started writing is how much time goes into marketing and publicity and social media and everything else. So really it just depends on the book and kind of where I am in my life. If I have a release coming up, I kind of know that I’m not writing very much cause I spend quite a bit of time promoting the released or if I’m an edits, you know, sometimes they’ll push the book, that I’m drafting to just focus on editing, the one that, that I’m working on with my editor. So it’s really, I think kind of about flexibility, you know, working with the schedule, working with what your publisher needs, and also what’s above needs. I mean, every bump is very different for me. Sometimes I really front load my research, other times I kind of research as I go. It really just depends on, how much kind of background information I have on the story and, the time period or how much I really have to kind of get myself up to speed.

Rachael Herron: [00:07:58] And where and when do you do all that work? Are you a morning person? Are you a fit it in while the kids at school kind of person, or?

Chanel Cleeton: [00:08:06] I just kind of write as I need to, it really depends. You know, I was on, traveling and so my editor needed something and so I was late at night kind of working, getting up early the next morning. Sometimes I work during the day. I mean, it, it really just depends on kind of where I am. So it wasn’t really consistent with my writing process, I would say, I write in Scrivener, which I find really helpful and that’s, that’s probably the biggest thing I would say that kind of carries me through the different thoughts. But beyond that, it changes quite a bit. 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:41] What is your favorite thing about Scrivener? And I also use it and love it. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:08:45] Yeah, I think for historical fiction it’s really helpful. I like that I can have all of my research there, so it’s easily accessible. I liked that I can kind of shift POV use, I do a lot of dual timelines or multiple POVs in my books and I like it you can kind of keep the scenes and then move things around quite easily when you’re going through the revision process. And I just feel like I really get a very comprehensive kind of macro look at the book I’m using Scrivener cause it’s all right there. You know, you can drop all of your research links in, and so everything is very easily accessible. Microsoft word, I use when I edit with my editor, but I feel like I don’t get as much as the high level view of the book when I’m in that. That’s really more what I’m kind of city and on the little details. 

Rachael Herron: [00:09:31] Yeah, I totally agree. I color code my points of view characters. That is the best trick! 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:09:37] It helps so much. Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:09:39] Because you’re like, oh! I’ve been in her point of view for five scenes and not in our point of view for, you know, forever until we had one, 10,000 pages ago, you know, or 10,000 words I go, not 10,000 pages. That would be too much. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:09:51] Yeah. No, it really does make a huge difference, to kind of have that, that ability and – and it does I think, give you like you’re saying, that idea of okay, this isn’t balanced here, I need to kind of balance this out. 

Rachael Herron: [00:10:03] Exactly. And you could color code, like the things you have to keep an eye on. I have a color coded empty scene right now that says, change plot completely to here. And then I started writing forward with what I knew the book was going to be. And I know that everything behind that, you know, before that red line is that that’s going to be a lot of revision. Yeah.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:10:28] Yes.

Rachael Herron: [00:10:29] What is your biggest challenge when it comes to writing? 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:10:31] I think all the other stuff you juggle. Definitely, like I said before, you know, when I started writing, I just didn’t appreciate how many different hats you kind of wear as an author. You can be a graphic designer, you can be accountant, you know, bookkeeper. It kind of goes all these different gamuts and a lot of times it’s stuff that you might not have a background in, so you really have to kind of get yourself up to speed. So I think it’s just juggling the time commitment of where do I invest my time? How do I kind of keep balance? And when you kind of get those last minute things that come on, you know, how do you shift that with the deadline you’re working on.

Rachael Herron: [00:11:06] How does that feel to you to juggle things like that? Because I find myself very resentful. When I’m like, Oh God, I actually have to spend time on these copy edits. You know, I really- I just, I, I forget over and over and over again that, okay, copy edits, you’ll get all these things coming in. How did, how do your emotions handle that?

Chanel Cleeton: [00:11:24] I think I’ve gotten pretty used to it now. And I think it’s just kind of figuring out, like I’ve learned that when I get copy edits, I cannot do two projects at once. 

Rachael Herron: [00:11:34] I know. I hate that.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:11:35] So I know some people that will try to draft

Rachael Herron: [00:11:36] I can’t do it.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:11:37] My brain doesn’t work that way, so I have to basically clear my schedule, push through the deadline, and then I can go back to whatever I was working on. So little things like that have helped, my editor is really amazing at communicating and I think earlier in my career, I was very much like a people pleaser and I always wanted to be like, oh no problem, I can do that. You know? But I’ve kind of learned now they really want you to turn it in your best book. So if there’s something going on, I’ll just be like, Hey, you know, I need an extra few days and they’re really great about working with me, or, you know, I think I have a better handle of what time I actually need and my process for copy edits. So I can look at my schedule and be like, okay, this is a little tight, but I know I can do it cause I’ve done it before. So I think it just kind of is more about getting comfortable with it. I’m a really big planner person. I have a day planner, I like the paper planner. And so I really just am very careful about scheduling and I always kind of leave, probably about a month, I would say, in my drafting process that I know it’s kind of free days there are, are free days. Because I know I probably get proof, so I’m going to get copy, it’s on the book before it, and so I can kind of build in that time so I’m not scrambling. So I think it’s little things like that that helped 

Rachael Herron: [00:12:50] You are much more logical than I am always scrambling at the last minute. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:12:56] Well, it’s not always perfect. So every day it sounds great. Sometimes life happens, but you know you could do it. But yeah.

Rachael Herron: [00:13:03] Yeah. Are you with Penguin? Is that what I’m remembering 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:13:05] I do. Yes. 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:05] Which in print?

Chanel Cleeton: [00:13:07] Berkeley.

Rachael Herron: [00:13:07] Who’s your editor? 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:13:09] Kate Seaver. 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:10] Oh my gosh. Okay. Here’s something that I’ll admit because I know she’ll never hear it. But I have been wanting to work with Kate for so long. She almost bought a book of mine a long time ago. I was with Danielle Perez when I was at Berkeley. Yeah. I love Danielle. I love, I love all my editors, but Kate Seaver is my dream- dream editor. Someday. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:13:29] I have to say, she’s like one of my favorite people. Like she’d just been amazing. And I’ve been with her for five years now. We’ve been, no, I guess six, almost six. So she’s just like so supportive, really wonderful to work with. And I think it’s so nice as a writer when you kind of get into sync with an editor, 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:46] Yes.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:13:47] You know, you have that kind of history and you know how each other works and it just helps a lot. So, yeah, she’s, she’s amazing. I, I highly recommend her. 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:55] That’s awesome. What is your biggest joy when it comes to writing?

Chanel Cleeton: [00:14:00] I love the everyday really feels like an adventure. I mean, I’m, I’m not at all a plotter. I really start with like the shell of an idea 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:07] So you’re a planner. You love planning like life, but not-

Chanel Cleeton: [00:14:11] Yes

Rachael Herron: [00:14:12] Okay, that’s really interesting. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of the combination. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:14:15] Yeah. It’s really odd with my personality and it’s kind of funny cause like on the business side, like I’ll come to my publisher with like spreadsheets with, you know, ideas for promotional plans and stuff. But on the writing side, I’ll give them like a paragraph and Kate’s really wonderful. She’ll just, she’ll be like, yep, yeah, she knows how I work and she knows I’ll figure it out as I go. But yeah, there’s something about my brain when I write. It’s kind of making my only like real creative outlet. Like I’m not artistic or musical or anything like that. So it’s like the one place I kind of, get to be a little bit free. And so, yeah, I think I just loved the adventure and kind of the unknown. I mean, my characters really surprised me and, and take me on journeys. So that’s, that’s really definitely the interesting part of it.

Rachael Herron: [00:14:56] That is beautiful, I love that. Can you share a craft tip of any sort with us?

Chanel Cleeton: [00:15:02] So I think because I don’t do as much planning on the front end, I’m a really big reviser. I love the revision process. 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:10] Me too.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:15:11] Yeah. It’s, I feel like that’s really when I get to just polish the story and probably where I try to step back and not be as free and be really critical of myself. Then try to kind of think of what would a reader pick apart? I really liked the print out my drafts. So I usually do, I do a lot of revision rounds. My first round I do on the computer and that’s kind of like a high level of, you know, really cleaning stuff up. And then I do a round where I printed out and I added my hand with like a red pen. And I find that you really find, new and different things when you look at your book in a different medium. So that’s really helpful. And then I also like to read it on an e-reader cause I feel like that kind of gives ’em another different perspective and I really do catch different things. I’ve heard other people do like text to speech. So I think really kind of changing up the way you look at your book, whatever works for you definitely helps because it gives you kind of a fresh eye, which is hard when you’re so deep in your revisions.

Rachael Herron: [00:16:09] I love that. And I have this day right before I ever send a draft to my actual editor, not my agent or anybody else, but, my, my revised first draft -ish, and then my, the last time I’m going to touch it, I reward myself with like five or six hours in bed on the Kindle, just reading it as a human being –

Chanel Cleeton: [00:16:29] I love that. Yes

Rachael Herron: [00:16:30] – reading a book and it’s so fun. And you’re also using the highlight feature of Kindle to like mark everything that you would change, 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:16:35] Yes

Rachael Herron: [00:16:36] But it’s just a fun to lie in bed and read your own book for the first time, you know, front book, you know, so, yeah, I love that. What thing in your life affects your writing in a surprising way?

Chanel Cleeton: [00:16:41] You know, I think, and I kind of mentioned this, but I just think writing is, I’ve been really fortunate that I kind of wall it off as like my little haven. So I do feel like it kind of is imperishable to my life. No matter what chaos is going on, 

Rachael Herron: [00:17:01] That’s awesome.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:17:02] It was really nice for me that I can like disappear into a book and, and that’s just really helpful. I think it writing has definitely been like a sanctuary. If, you know, I’m stressed about something or I’m busy, you know, I can just kind of zone into my manuscripts. So I would say it’s almost the opposite that like it kind of is it affected by things, which has been definitely nice.

Rachael Herron: [00:17:23] I think you’re a novelist in that. Cause most writers I talked to their life is what gets in the way and freaks them out and then they can concentrate on your book, on their books. So you being able to do that I think is kind of a superpower. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:17:35] Well, and I think what I find too, that, and so maybe I should rephrase a little bit. I think that when there are things going on in the world that I have a reaction to, I’ve really been able to put that into my books, and I don’t know, just been kind of serendipitous that it’s lined up with the book I’m writing at the time, tends to be something that kind of lines up with something I feel strongly about. So it really can kind of come through in the writing. And I think I get to kind of use it almost cathartic leads to, yeah, talk about my feelings through my characters and have them kind of look at similar situations. So I think that part too, I mean, I wouldn’t say it kind of affects it in a negative way, but it definitely kind of opens up. For me to express myself, I think. 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:16] Do you work at home or do you go out to write? 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:18:20] It really depends. I, I will say my productivity is usually better when I’m not at home. Like if I go to a coffee shop, I tend to do a little bit better. Honestly, though, then it gets into like, I’m at a coffee shop ordering lots of coffee and, you know, it gets expensive. So I don’t do that often, but if I’m at a, like a, a crunch time where like I have to finish the books, sometimes I’ll just go sit somewhere for like 12 hours and write. So yeah, I really take it up. I mean, I was, I meant to know about prep and I was editing at the park, like I printed out my book and I was just like editing as I went, I was like, okay, this is good you know, well, we were like on vacation and I was in an arcade editing. Like it’s just, you know, you kind of do what you have to do. So it’s not always a pretty, like. Yeah, a vision I think I had of what being a writer was. It’s often just kind of messy and you have to, and

Rachael Herron: [00:19:12] Yeah, in an arcade, that is definitely the first time I’ve ever heard that.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:19:16] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:19:17] It’s kind of amazing.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:19:18] It was actually, not that. I mean, I was like, there could be worse. So yeah.

Rachael Herron: [00:19:25] Okay, great. What is the best book that you’ve read recently? Why did you love it? 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:19:30] So I always have a lot of books I have a read. So I’m going to give a few, I just finished Long Bright River by Liz Moore, and it’s amazing. It was a thriller- it was kind of a mystery thriller, but set, against kind of the backdrop of the opioid epidemic. And it was just a really interesting angle that I hadn’t seen being done. She’s kind of a very literary mystery writer, so it was really lyrical and beautiful. Reminded me a lot of ton of friends who’s a favorite of mine. So just really, and it really made me think about a lot of different things. So really enjoyed that, that was really surprising. And then one that’s coming out on March 10th is, And They Called it Camelot by Stephanie Marie Thornton. And that’s a historical fiction about Jackie Kennedy. And I read it as an arc. It’s this phenomenal. I’m really excited for her. I think readers are really gonna love that book. That one’s out on the 10th. 

Rachael Herron: [00:20:22] Oh, that is very exciting. Thank you. I’m going to put both of those on my TBR pile. Speaking of TBR piles, can you tell us about your most recent work where they should put on their TBR pile. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:20:34] Oh, thank you. So I have, my next book is coming out June 16^th and it’s called The Last Train to Key West, and it’s set in Florida in the 1930s and it’s Labor day weekends, and one of the deadliest, the most powerful storms in US history hit the Keys then and destroyed Henry Flagler’s railroad and kind of reef a lot of habits. There were a lot of world war one veterans who were down in the region working on, building a highway. And unfortunately, they perished, due to kind of insufficient mornings and they were supposed to be evacuated then there were issues. So it’s this really kind of a tumultuous time in US history. And I didn’t know that much about. And so it was really interesting to kind of research it. And I have three heroines that were down there. One of them is related to my friends’ family from, Next Year in Havana and When We Left Cuba and their lives sort of intersect, as the storm is coming.

Rachael Herron: [00:21:26] That is amazing and it addresses something I really, really love about historical fiction, is real events that I know you’re from Florida, so perhaps you’d heard of that. But I am from California. I’ve never heard of that storm and never heard about those men who perished. And that is fascinating to me.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:21:43] Yes. Yeah, I mean, I even being from Florida, I really hadn’t heard about it, and it was just hurricane season. I came across an article that mentioned it, and you just get that kind of spidey sense of like, I need to know more about this and that’s what I love about historical fiction. I’m constantly learning, and constantly exploring periods of history that I’m surprised I don’t know more about but it’s fascinating to learn about them. 

Rachael Herron: [00:22:05] I cannot wait to read that one. I really looking forward to that. I love your writing. Tell us where listeners can find you.

Chanel Cleeton: [00:22:14] I’m on Instagram, @chanelcleeton. My website is www.chanelcleeton.com, and then I’m on Twitter, with my name and Facebook as well. (ChanelCleeton)

Rachael Herron: [00:22:24] Thank you. Thank you so much for doing this and I am just so thrilled to talk to you. Thanks for inspiring my listeners. So 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:22:32] Oh, thank you so much for having me. This is absolutely wonderful. 

Rachael Herron: [00:22:34] Yeah. Take care. Bye. 

Chanel Cleeton: [00:22:37] Bye. 

Rachael Herron: [00:22:35] Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.

Tara East has four degrees in communications and is currently completing her doctorate in Creative Writing. She is the author of a time-travelling novella, When Bell Met Bowie, and a mystery novel, Every Time He Dies (currently holding a solid 4.83 stars on goodreads!). She also has a blog, a YouTube channel, and a podcast because TV is boring. (The exceptions being Outlander and Fargo). 

How Do You Write Podcast: Explore the processes of working writers with bestselling author Rachael Herron. Want tips on how to write the book you long to finish? Here you’ll gain insight from other writers on how to get in the chair, tricks to stay in it, and inspiration to get your own words flowing.

Transcript

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode 172 of “How do you Write?”

Today, I am joined by the delightful Tara East, and we have a fantastic conversation. She is adorable, and she’s sitting on this beautiful wraparound porch in Australia, so you might want to look at it on YouTube. And I just had a really good time talking to her about all things writing, including how interviewing people about the stuff you’re writing about can actually be a super power of being a writer. Really, really enjoyable to talk to her. I know that you’re going to enjoy that. 

What is going on around here? Still, I am very much enjoying my co- working space. This is actually the official podcast booth, and they have a blue yeti mic right here, so I don’t even need to carry my microphone back and forth. It is amazing, and this is a little bit better padded, so hopefully not as echo-y, although I will try to master that out when I am mixing the podcast together, and what else is going on? I’m writing, I’m writing a lot because I’m on deadline.  I’ve got about six weeks to finish this book and revise it. So I’m panicking a little bit, but that’s okay because panic to me means words every day and the co-working spaces really working for that. I love showing up, turning off my internet, and I have nothing else to do. There’s nowhere to go. There’s nothing to clean up. I loved working in the Mills library, but it wasn’t as comfortable. I didn’t have a refrigerator. I didn’t have couches I could move to when I wanted to. It’s like being at home with none of being at home. It’s just magnificent. So, I can’t say enough about this co-working space. I really, really love it. If you are interested, if you’re local, and if you are of the female persuasion, it is called The Sphere and its downtown Oakland, so it’s pretty darn great. 

That is going on. I’m really enjoying doing the writing. I just wrote the, kind of moment where everything has turned upside down and our main character is in severe jeopardy, so it’s great. I was really enjoying writing that today, that was fun. I wanted to tell you all about something that I wrote about in my Patreon essay for February, so it just went out about a week ago. I write a patreon and say every month it’s usually about something that is happening to me, it is something about my life, my creativity. Oftentimes, it’s very, very personal, and I wrote about a relapse that I had in the beginning of February and I’m not going to go into it. I’m kind of teasing you a little bit to go get the patreon essay but those of you who are patrons, I have had just the most beautiful, wonderful reaction to that the short story is that I wasn’t prepared when somebody offered me weed. Then I smoked it. I had been sober for almost two years, and for about six days. I tried to tell myself that I was, I had still been sober since weed was never really a big problem of mine. It was always about alcohol. But I wasn’t sober for two or three hours. So I reset my sobriety date. And that patreon essay is about that. And I just wanted to say a very, very full hearted, thank you, to you, patrons who wrote in, who responded to the essay itself, who emailed me separately, privately. It’s been really wonderful sharing that part of my heart with you and thank you for listening to that and for sharing with me what you go through when you’re with your struggles of any kind of addiction, whatever that looks like in your life.

Speaking of Patreon pledges, I would like to thank some new patrons. Thanks for coming over. I think I already thanked Tammy Brightwise, Hello Tammy! I might’ve already thanked Zooey Lee but if I haven’t, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And now new patrons, Kristen Harrell and Sandra Schnackenberg, that’s an awesome last name. I’m sure I mangled it. Thank you for being new patrons and first showing up here. Thank you, new and old patrons. If you ever want to check out what I offer, mostly it’s very personal essays that people seem to like. That’s over at www.patreon.com/rachael R, A, C, H, A, E, L so you can always check that up.

I’m just going to jump right into the interview now with Tara and not keep you in suspense anymore, but I will say again, thank you to people who reach out to me. I’ve had more than the normal amount of people reach out to me recently and say, thanks for what you do. Thanks for this particular podcast. Thanks for this episode. Thanks for something you said, and I have to say, it means a lot to me. If I can ever provide anything of use to you. This is not a podcast for me just to whine on about how I am doing or am not doing my writing. This podcast is meant to be helpful to you, which is why I interview these people and which is why I gave some of my own tips on the mini podcasts. So thank you for reaching out. It really, really makes a difference in this Podcaster’s life. Now, I hope you enjoy the interview with Tara, and I hope that you are getting some of your own writing done. Please come and tell me how it’s going. I love to hear from you. 

Hey, you’re a writer. Did you know that I send out a free weekly email of writing encouragement? Go sign up for it at www.rachaelherron.com/write  and you’ll also get my Stop Stalling and Write PDF with helpful tips you can use today to get some of your own writing done. Okay, now onto the interview.

Rachael Herron: [00:06:03] Well, I could not be more pleased to welcome to the show today, Tara East. Tara is it pronounced Tara or Tara?

Tara East: [00:06:09] Tara, 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:10] Tara. Okay, perfect. It’s so good to have you on the show all the way from Australia, so

Tara East: [00:06:16] Thank you very much.

Rachael Herron: [00:06:17] And we get to listen to your gorgeous accent. I’ll give you a little bit of a bio. Tara East has four degrees. Not one, not two, not three, but four degrees in communications and is currently completing her doctorate in Creative Writing. She is the author of a time-traveling novella, When Bell Met Bowie, and a mystery novel, Every Time He Dies, which is currently holding a solid 4.83 stars on goodreads, which I have to say is like a miracle for goodreads. Tara also has a blog, a YouTube channel, and a podcast because TV is boring. The exceptions being Outlander and Fargo. You know, I haven’t seen the out- the Fargo show.

Tara East: [00:06:53] It’s so good. All of the seasons consistently good. 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:56] Ooh, okay

Tara East: [00:06:57] And even though there’s a different cast every time. 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:59] Good. I need to- I need a new like series to binge. So fabulous, thank you for that. Well, welcome to the show. As you know, we were just talking off air a little bit that the things we talk about on this particular show are things that always bear repeating. We always want to talk about writing and what it is like. So I would love to know how writing fits into your life. What is your personal writing process?

Tara East: [00:07:24] Well for a very long time, it was quite a rigid process and I would always write in the morning from 7:00 AM to 10:00 AM with the goal of hitting 2000 words. But lately the routine has had to change as it does with life. And I do still try to write every day if I can. And I tried to write in the morning if I can, but I’ve allowed myself that flexibility that I can write in the early afternoon or late afternoon if need be. But I’ve also had to realize that I can’t always write every day anymore, and I’ve had to make that change where now maybe you have your dedicated writing days just to take that pressure off. Especially when life changes and it becomes more complicated to allow to give yourself permission for that routine to change, even though it may not be optimal at this time, it might have to change. But-

Rachael Herron: [00:08:17] How does that make you feel emotionally? Because I get really stuck and rigid about these kinds of things, and I get very frustrated when things don’t go my way, which they often do not do. How do you feel about it? 

Tara East: [00:08:29] Oh, it’s incredibly frustrating because the writing for me, it’s always one of my top priorities. Even when other responsibilities come in and as you know, there are these optimal writing times, like I’m an early person. The other day I had the luxury of waking up at 5:00 AM and starting to write at about six or seven and the writing was so much easier because that is my optimal time. So it is disappointing and frustrating when life changes and it’s no longer feasible to work at that time, or you would have to change so many things or inconvenient so many other people to swap the routine around. But, yeah, it’s, there’s sort of like no easy solution to it other than just having to like accept that this is the new routine for now and maybe trying to work back towards the old routine if you can.

Rachael Herron: [00:09:25] Yeah. 

Tara East: [00:09:26] That’s the space I’m in right now and hopefully it can go back to how it used to be.

Rachael Herron: [00:09:30] You are actively working this practice right now, yes. What is your biggest challenge when it comes to writing?

Tara East: [00:09:37] Well, there’s two things. One, in terms of specifically craft setting is so hard for me 

Rachael Herron: [00:09:45] Me too!

Tara East: [00:09:46] Yeah, and it’s so funny because setting can add so much to a novel, and setting isn’t just about naming the town or the place where the story is happening. Like some of my favorite novels aware the setting is really informing, the story can add so much richness to it. But certainly when I go to write, it is so focused on relationship and moving the plot forward and almost, it’s almost floating in the air like there is no setting and I have to really go back and build that.

Rachael Herron: [00:10:20] So is that something you do in a revision pass? 

Tara East: [00:10:25] Oh, absolutely. And it, and it has to be quite intentional, when I do revise, our revise focusing on a specific thing, I sort of don’t go through revising, trying to fix all of the problems at once. I’ll go through and be like, okay, during this round, I’m just focusing on setting. During this round, I’m just focusing on character or plot holes, that sort of thing, and yet it has to be very intentional and a lot of work goes into it because it doesn’t come naturally or intuitively to me as I’m writing. 

Rachael Herron: [00:10:57] So let me ask you, because I’ve been curious about this, and I’ve asked a couple of other people, do you see your scenes as you write them? Because I don’t, I, I see the words, but I don’t actually get an image in my mind. And I’ve wondered if that’s why I can’t do setting. Do you see scenes play out in front of your eyes?

Tara East: [00:11:16] That’s so interesting. I actually do see the scenes quite often playing out in my mind’s eye and it freaks my partner out a little bit, but often I don’t even look at the computer screen. I’m like looking out the window while I talk, and then that helps reduce eyestrain, tip. But then it also, 

Rachael Herron: [00:11:39] That’s great. 

Tara East: [00:11:40] I don’t know about you, but sometimes I get so sick of looking at computers all day, 

Rachael Herron: [00:11:43] Yes

Tara East: [00:11:44] But, yeah, and by looking away from the monitor, I think in a way it’s almost like daydreaming and it’s that much easier to lose myself in the story compared to when I am looking directly at the word document and not focusing on the words. Though admittedly, it might be easier because I’m a touch typist. If that isn’t a skill you have, that could be quite difficult to do, but that is, it certainly helps me get into the story so that it feels more like creation rather than, oh, sorry, so it feels more like dictation rather than creation.

Rachael Herron: [00:12:19] Oh, that’s great. Yeah. And I also do like to look away from the computer as just doing it. I was looking down on the street and there was a construction crew, and I was just kind of watching them and not thinking about them when I was writing, but my eyes were on them and it was kind of a relaxing feeling. Yeah. 

Tara East: [00:12:33] They sort of just glaze over. Yeah.

Rachael Herron: [00:12:35] Yeah. And yeah, exactly. What is your biggest joy in writing? 

Tara East: [00:12:40] Two again, one of the biggest joys which is actually not directly related to the writing per se, but it was during the research process of my latest novel. I got to interview detectives and embalmers about their work processes, and I was able to have face to face interviews with them. And those are just not really conversations you get to have with everyday people, especially with something like embalming, it’s very sensitive topic.

Rachael Herron: [00:13:10] Yes

Tara East: [00:13:12] Absolutely. Like if you, if you met someone like that at a cocktail party, if they even told you that that was their job, if they did say that, then you’re not exactly going to feel the permission to ask them a lot of fairly invasive questions about their work and their work life and all of that. So that was incredibly rewarding. And I think that was something I definitely picked up from journalism is that as soon as you stick the name tag on you, I’m a writer, suddenly you have this permission to go up to complete strangers.

Rachael Herron: [00:13:43] Yeah.

Tara East: [00:13:43] And ask them questions. So 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:45] Yeah it’s, it’s really amazing. 

Tara East: [00:13:48] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:13:48] And, and I, I have been into like mortuaries and back by where the, the crematorium is and I’ve gotten to touch those things and look at those things. Did you get to look at a body? They probably wouldn’t let you do that. 

Tara East: [00:14:01] No, they, that was the one thing I didn’t get to look at. And it was so fascinating because I got to get that granular detail that you can’t find on Google. I was able to smell the chemicals

Rachael Herron: [00:14:14] Yes

Tara East: [00:14:15] that they use, like not taking big waves, obviously, just like little snip. And being able to describe that and describe the workplace and what, what even the workplace actually feels like when you’re there, let alone how it looks and that daily routine of what everybody gets up to, like that exposure to these worlds, these real worlds that you would never get to step into. And then you get to bring all of that juicy information back and put it in your story. I mean, it’s just as definitely a highlight. 

Rachael Herron: [00:14:48] It’s priceless. It really, that kind of research really is priceless. 

Tara East: [00:14:51] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:14:52] when I was in the crematorium, there was this smell of burn. Like there’s this smoky smell and I’m, you know, and to realize that those are bodies, sorry, squeamish listeners and then I learned that they have a double, they have a double burner. They need to burn the body, but then they need to have a machine that burns the smoke. Because they do- they can’t really smoke into the air or all of the community would be like, there’s, there’s dead bodies in the air. So they have to have a smoke, they have to have a burner that burns the air and releases it as basically clean.

Tara East: [00:15:24] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:15:25] Like who would know that?

Tara East: [00:15:26] I know. 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:27] It’s so fascinating. So fascinating. 

Tara East: [00:15:29] It is. It’s all those like, 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:30] But you said you had, you had two things, though, yeah. 

Tara East: [00:15:31] And the other thing that I love about writing is just those moments when you nail a sentence or an exchange of dialogue and you either feel really proud of what you’ve created or you feel really moved, like when you can move yourself to tears, that’s pretty amazing. And that is so rewarding in itself. And also when you somehow, are writing a scene and you completely by accident, loop it back to this like offhand comment that happened in like chapter two or three and you’re writing chapter eight, that is just like, you just feel like the stars have aligned in the cosmos is like totally on your side. It’s fantastic, those moments. 

Rachael Herron: [00:16:19] I wish it happened more often, but yes, I agree. Totally. Okay, can you share a craft tip of any sort with us? 

Tara East: [00:16:26] Oh yeah. The best craft tip I ever got was actually from an editor who I got to work with it and she was my mentor for a while and regardless of genre. But especially if you write crime or mystery, I highly- or thriller, i highly recommend that you create a timeline for your events and for the chapters’ scenes. All of that because so often where writing in random chunks and we might not sit down and complete a whole scene in the day. We come back to it either the next day or even a week later, and you and timelines become muddled up. Now, I wouldn’t really worry about the timeline during the drafting phase, unless you’re a hardcore outliner, then by all means go for it. But if you’re a bit more of a pantser, just do that first draft, create a timeline based off that first draft and see where those inconsistencies and problems are, and then you can go through, create a new timeline and use that as your guide when you start doing your revision. It, it saves me so many problems in writing my mystery novel where it is time is so important in those kinds of genres, but even if you’re writing romance, they’re still in credible value. You still need to make sure that it’s a believable and consistent timeline.

Rachael Herron: [00:17:49] Something that I learned definitely the hard way. Like I, I would turn in books and then I wouldn’t know if the last time they saw each other was three weeks ago or 42 hours ago, I would have no idea. And that changes how characters respond to each other. So yeah, that’s an incredibly good and valuable tip for people to know. And I also don’t do it in the first draft. I do it on that big second, make sense draft. Yeah.

Tara East: [00:18:13] Absolutely. 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:14] What thing in your life affects your writing in a surprising way? 

Tara East: [00:18:20] One of the biggest comments I’ve gotten from my work short story or longer length, such as a novel novella, is that the dialogue is so strong and I believe why that is, is because I had private speech and drama lessons from the age of 4 to 14 and then I continued on –

Rachael Herron: [00:18:40] Oh my goodness.

Tara East: [00:18:41] Yeah. And then I continued on independently until I was 22 and I have a really rich background in theater, acting, poetry, all of that. And I believe it was that initial learning of how to tell a story through dialogue that has actually really impacted my writing. When I was first getting into fiction writing, my early drafts were almost entirely dialogue with very spaz pros. And then I had to teach myself, how do you write pros? What happens in between the dialogue? And that was a skill I had to build. So I do believe that that background and acting really helped me develop this skill track really good dialogue. And I, I think the thing about acting is that it is a novel brought to life. So there is this really nice bridge between them, even though of course they are their own forms of art, but that was just absolutely a happy accident. 

Rachael Herron: [00:19:39] That’s wonderful. And I’ve never heard anyone say that before. Do you have any yen to write a screenplay? 

Tara East: [00:19:46] I have thought about it now just because of the feedback that I’ve received on, my recent novel. So I had definitely thought about it, but I am yet to do any education on it because I do know that that is its own whole structure and process, but it’s something I’ve definitely got my eye on for the future. I think. I suspect that I could be good at that just with having that natural tendency towards dialogue. But yeah, nothing is happening yet in that respect. 

Rachael Herron: [00:20:21] What a wonderful talent to have to bring to this different art, and you can kind of tell by the way you are speaking and your beautiful use of language. I have this terrible fault, which all of my listeners know, which is, I don’t really ever end a sentence. I have ands and buts and commas. And I go back and, you know, start over sentences without ever pausing. But you have that beautiful extemporaneous, I’m going to say a sentence beautifully, and then I’m going to begin another one. In the meantime, this is all in one sentence for me, but that’s something they talk about.

Tara East: [00:20:55] If we were to translate our written speech, you wouldn’t even understand it because we do, we don’t speak standard written English. We speak in these broken mixed up. We stay half a sentence and then we swap and change. Like that is real life dialogue when you’re talking. So yeah. We got all of that-

Rachael Herron: [00:21:14] And the trick is to make it sound like that on the page. It’s not exactly what we hear. So, you’re obviously excellent at that, and I love that. That’s great. What is the best book you’ve read recently and why did you love it?

Tara East: [00:21:28] So it’s this book that was written in 1963 and it’s called The Wall by Marlene Crucifer. And that’s H, A, U S, H, O, F, E, R, and it was written during the cold war. So you have to think that we’re still in this sort of, we’re still in the eminence of world war II and in the novel, this woman goes out to the woods and we never learn her name. And she goes out with some companions and they leave to go to town. She stays on this farm, and when she wakes up in the morning, a glass dome has come over the farm and the surrounding fields, and she is trapped inside the dome with the farm animals, which are a cat, a dog, and a cow. And the entire novel is about her domestic survival. So learning how to crop, learning how to chalk wood, how to take care of the animals, how to help the cow give birth. And it is not about her trying to figure out how the wall came down or trying to escape. She’s actually just trying to survive in the wall. And very quickly, it just becomes this gorgeous story about a woman’s need to survive and to connect with animals and animal human kinship. And it is so beautiful and the writing is so elegant. There’s these human animal exchanges where she’ll look at one of the animals and she’ll have this knowing of what they are thinking about, and yes, there are elements of anthropomorphism, but she’ll describe these beautiful exchanges in a single sentence. And then she just like leaves it and then moves onto the next thing and then it’s up to you to unpack it. And it’s just beautiful. And it’s got this like quiet tension throughout the whole novel to like pull you through because it’s written as one long journal entry as she explained her survival over the years. And there’s, she keeps hinting at this disaster that’s going to happen and it’s not an environmental disaster, but this thing that’s going to happen. And that just keeps pulling you through and you’re just like, what’s going to happen? What’s going to happen? And you – 

Rachael Herron: [00:23:41] Don’t- don’t tell us ‘cause I want to –

Tara East: [00:23:43] Oh no, I wouldn’t 

Rachael Herron: [00:23:44] read that stuff cause it’s amazing

Tara East: [00:23:45] But you don’t find out until the final pages and it’s, yeah, it’s fantastic. I highly-

Rachael Herron: [00:23:52] And it’s called the wall?

Tara East: [00:23:53] The wall. Yeah. And it was made into a movie as well, but I haven’t seen the movie. 

Rachael Herron: [00:23:59] And is it, is it recent or it’s just set in the cold war? 

Tara East: [00:24:03] It was released; it was published in 1963 so it’s actually 70 years old.

Rachael Herron: [00:24:10] So it sounds like she was really ahead of her time and

Tara East: [00:24:12] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:24:13] Oh, that sounds wonderful.

Tara East: [00:24:15] Yeah. It, it reads like it could have been published last week, it’s very, it has a very contemporary feel. 

Rachael Herron: [00:24:25] Thank you for sharing that. That is absolutely going on my TBR path. I have two comments. Number one, you just made every American swooned by saying, Heytch, which is just one of our things that we love so much so that, thank you for that. Number two, before we go into like where we can find you and about your books, where if people are watching on YouTube, where are you sitting? It’s beautiful. I will describe it to listeners. It looks like she’s on a white covered porch with these beautiful white windows and white curtains behind her, and she’s wearing an orange blouse. So it’s, you’re very, you’re very beautiful. And where are you? 

Tara East: [00:25:02] So my office is on a veranda that has been closed and I’ve changed the veranda into a sunroom and it’s gorgeous. The house is like 120 years old, which is very old for Australia because we’re such a –

Rachael Herron: [00:25:18] -it’s very old for America too. Yeah. Especially for California. Yeah. 

Tara East: [00:25:22] There you go. So it’s like-

Rachael Herron: [00:25:23] It’s gorgeous. And I heard your clock chiming at one point. 

Tara East: [00:25:26] Yep. Got a grandfather. 

Rachael Herron: [00:25:30] It’s like, it’s so heavenly. Okay, good. We’ve answered those questions. Excellent. Okay. What would you like to tell us about now? Tell us about your latest book. Tell us where we can find you. All of those things. 

Tara East: [00:25:40] Excellent. So in November last year, I published my first full length novel, and it’s called Every Time He Dies, 

Rachael Herron: [00:25:49] And this is the most beautiful cover. 

Tara East: [00:25:53] Thank you.

Rachael Herron: [00:25:54] Absolutely incredible. 

Tara East: [00:25:55] I’ve had so many compliments on the cover, which was –

Rachael Herron: [00:25:59] I would pick it up in a heartbeat from just the cover 

Tara East: [00:26:01] Good because like, I don’t know about you, but naming a novel and trying to come up with a design, I had no idea what cover to, to help to design for the book cover. I hired a designer, but we obviously collaborated and work together. But, yeah, I’ve received such positive feedback on it. And you could say it’s a mystery novel. If you wanted to get super granular, you could say that it’s a self-coiled crime novel with paranormal elements. But basically it’s about a woman who finds a watch that is haunted by a ghost with amnesia. And while she’s trying to uncover his identity and how he died, she becomes involved in her estranged father’s homicide investigation. 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:50] Oh, that’s great.

Tara East: [00:26:51] Yeah, so it’s about grief, time, family, loyalty. It’s full of psychics, bikeys a dry leading lady and a ghost suffering from an identity crisis. 

Rachael Herron: [00:27:08] And it’s called Every Time He Dies 

Tara East: [00:27:10] Yes. Every Time He Dies.

Rachael Herron: [00:27:11] And the, and the cover is, can you describe it? It’s like an upside down skeleton, but it looks  

Tara East: [00:27:17] Yes, so it’s an upside down skeleton and the rib cage is full of flowers. And the reason why the skeleton is upside down, is because my main character is an embalmer. So it’s supposed to be mirroring you pull out the cold tray. Yeah. 

Rachael Herron: [00:27:33] Yes

Tara East: [00:27:34] So it’s, basically the pulling out the tray in a morgue. And that’s the body. So, but obviously you can

Rachael Herron: [00:27:40] Did you hire the art too? Is it unique art or is it stock? 

Tara East: [00:27:45] It actually stock art, which is amazing

Rachael Herron: [00:27:47] Wow

Tara East: [00:27:48] Considering it’s this, you know, why it like looks so good, but 

Rachael Herron: [00:27:52] It looks so amazing. That is just gorgeous. 

Tara East: [00:27:55] Oh, actually I’ll plug the designer cause she does have her own place. 

Rachael Herron: [00:27:58] Oh please.

Tara East: [00:27:59] Yeah. Her name is Jessica Bell and she’s Australian, but lives in Greece and I believe her website is www.jessicabelldesign.com And she’s fantastic. And she has a range of different packages. 

Rachael Herron: [00:28:12] It’s truly one of the best book covers I’ve ever seen, trad self, anywhere. That is incredible. So, and it is also on my TBR pile. I’ve already purchased it. 

Tara East: [00:28:23] Oh, thank you!

Rachael Herron: [00:28:24] You’re welcome. It’s on, it’s one of many books waiting for me on my Kindle. So thank you for being on the show. Tell us where people can find you.

Tara East: [00:28:31] Absolutely. So my website is probably the best place, and that’s taraeast.com I have a weekly writing advice blog that goes up every Thursday, Australian time. And I also have a writing advice YouTube channel as well. And I’m of course, also on Instagram and both of those pages, authortaraeast 

Rachael Herron: [00:28:55] Author Tara East. That’s perfect. Oh, thank you, I’m going to check that out too. It has been such a treat to talk to you in your beautiful space there, and I’m just so glad that we’ve connected. 

Tara East: [00:29:06] Absolutely. It was such a lovely conversation. Thank you, Rachael. 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:09] Thank you so much, and I wish you had very happy writing. 

Tara East: [00:29:13] You too. 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:14] Okay, bye. 

Tara East: [00:29:15] Bye!

Rachael Herron: [00:29:11] Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.

Ep. 171: What To Do With a Revision Letter (and where are the memoirists?) Bonus Mini-Episode!

Transcript

Rachael Herron: Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron, and this is a bonus episode brought to you directly by my $5 Patreons. If you’d like me to be your mini coach for less than a large mocha Frappuccino, you can join too at www.patreon.com/rachael

Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode 171 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron. So pleased that you’re here with me today as I come to you from the co-working space, which I mentioned in the last episode. I love it so much that it actually hurts. So this is a mini episode, and I’ve got some questions that have been backing up here that I want to answer. So let’s jump right into it. Hopefully I’ll get through at least two, maybe three. 

[00:00:45] Okay, first is from Mel Kleimo. Where do memoirs hang out? Do you have any recommendations for where I can start looking online for this tribe? I do have a great group of romance writers locally and nationally, New Zealand. Whoo. But while they stray into thrillers and fantasy sci-fi, I am clearly not hanging out in the right places to find memoir writers. And I’m too far away to come to a university courses. I wish you could know. I have a travel memoir drafted. And I’m keen to find some like-minded critique partners to swap with and get building my memoir muscles. 

[00:00:21] Okay. So that is a really interesting and tricky question, which is why I am enjoying answering it right now. There used to be a, an association, which I think is still around in the United States, which I believe is open for everyone called the National Association of Memoir Writers. I just Google that, and if you go to any of their pages, it looks like they have lost their URL, and now there’s somebody trying to tell you to download things that you shouldn’t download. So, that’s no good. But they do still have a Facebook group. Let me glance at it really quick. I pulled it up. It has 3000 people in it, and if you Google National Association of Memoir Writers, join the Facebook group. It looks like it’s pretty healthy. They have monthly round tables, there are different talks that you can get into teleseminars and the reason I recommend that is just because it is nice to play it, have a place to start connecting. Being in these kinds of groups is great. But finding your peers is better. So what I recommend is that you find a Facebook group like this or some other kind of group, and start to get to know the players inside. If you find some memoirs that you love, follow them on social media. Start leaving them comments. I know this sounds like a lot of work, but it actually works and is a form of networking. 

Marion Roach Smith has a podcast now it’s called Qwerty. The like the keyboard letters, a Q, W, E, R, T, Y, Qwerty, and she interviews incredible Mel Morris and get to know them, follow them around, see where they are hanging out, see what they’re posting online. You can actually really become pals with people just online. By following them around like Mel, I feel like I know you because you and I have been around each other. Oh wow. Now, so that is a good way to do it. I don’t really find any other memoir groups easily available. And I’m not sure why that is.

So if anybody listening to this has something that they know about, please come to www.howdoyouwrite.net and drop us a comment. Now, I’ll be sure to pass that on to you. But other than that memoir are so, we’re hard to find. We hide, we hide in plain sight and write all of our truths down. So, yeah, that’s what I’ve got for you right now. If I hear more, I will let you know. So good question.

[00:04:04] Let’s see, Maggie! Hello Maggie! Maggie says, have officially hired an editor for the first time, first book, who will get the manuscript in mid-February and get back to me in mid-March with an editorial assessment after reading all the, yeah, so it was, this is, this sounds like it’s a structural edit. Some questions for you in the, how do you write community, when you’re working progress is off being edited, do you suggest you keep working on it? Or put it away and jump into something else. Do you have tips or suggestions of how to get the most out of your experience? Down the line when you get into needing a line edit? Do writers usually hire the same editor again for consistency, slash relationship or go with someone different to get another set of professional eyes on it? As you are essentially paying someone to tell you what’s wrong with. And hopefully write with it. Is there a way to prepare yourself to sit with constructive criticism of your first novel that wanting to quit?

[00:05:02] Okay. I know that is a rhetorical, not answerable, but definitely a big fear of mine. I have loved everyone’s questions on the new bonus episodes. Thank you for offering them. You are very welcome, Maggie, and I really wanted to get to your question because I know that time has been running out as you’re reading for your editorial letter to come back in the mail or in the virtual mail as it probably is coming. So you’ve got a bunch of questions in here. People who are listening and wondering about these different kinds of edits, the biggest, and I consider one of the most important, they’re all important, but what the most important is that developmental edit is also known as a structural edit. It is also known as a, Oh, what’s the word? Content edit. Because writers have a million different words for a million different things. There’s no reason to why we did that. We just call things differently. So that’s the, that’s the thing. It is, the 30,000-foot view of your book, the, the editor looks at how it works if all of your, it’s looking for plot problem, this looking for character arc problems, this particular edit is looking for, does this book make sense? Does it have a theme? Does it have a point? What is that point and how effectively is that point being given? So it’s a really, really big and very important edit. And Maggie, I’m going to skip around in your question. When you say how do you prepare yourself to sit with constructive criticism on this first book without wanting to quit? First of all, I think most people feel this way. When you get that revision letter, that first big revision letter, you’ll want to quit. It’s hard because this editor is someone that you’re either working with at a traditional publisher and they’ve bought your book and they’re working with you on it, or there’s somebody you hired. In either case, this person is important and their opinion matters in a way, that your friend’s opinion don’t matter, that your husband’s opinion does not matter. This is an authority figure who will be coming to you to tell you how your book is broken. And that is because that’s what we need them to do. A structural, a structural or content edit will never come back to you and say, great job. Nailed it. And we should not believe it if they do. Every once in a while, editors will say little, you know, leave little smiley faces or a little ha-ha’s.

[00:07:37] But I’ve had editors who never leave any positive feedback, just negative feedback, because that is what they’re paid to do. That is their job. So, yeah, you’ll want to quit. Everybody wants to quit when they get that first revision letter. I still want to quit when I get revision letters. And knowing that, I think for me is the biggest part of the battle, your very first revision letter, I have heard it described as like hearing a nuclear explosion being in the impact range of a nuclear explosion. You will not be able to hear for three or four days. There will just be a ringing in your ears as you try to figure out can all of this negative input into my book be true. None of this can be true, can it? I am not a failure. I didn’t write a completely failed book. And the truth is, no, you didn’t. There’s a lot of your book that works, but again, your editor, her job is to point out what doesn’t work. And it is this explosion. It’s, it’s hard to imagine how difficult it is, and I say that with a laugh in my voice because it gets better. And I’ll tell you that too. That’s another good thing to expect. Give yourself two, three, four days to sit on the letter. Don’t start working. Don’t do anything in the manuscript. Just sit with it. Amazingly, three or four days later, usually I start to think, well, you know, that whole letter is crap, except maybe for that first point she raised, maybe I could make that a little bit better.

[00:09:10] And then the next day I think, Oh, maybe her second point isn’t that terrible. It’s not that off. And this keeps happening. The revision letter keeps getting better and better. Shockingly, the more you think about it, because here’s the thing, editors know what they’re doing. They are experts. My editors have been right about what they tell me to do approximately 95% of the time, which to me sounds like a hundred percent of the time. When they tell me to do it, I generally always do it, and I am generally always very pleased that I did, even if I didn’t like it going into it, your mileage may vary. The word stet is very important. When you’re getting edited, you can always step something, which means let it stand. The way it is, the way I wrote it, the author always wins in a discussion with an editor. Author always wins. However, I believe that in a discussion, a disagreement of opinion between an author and an editor, the editor is generally right. Not always. Of course, you may have had a terrible editor in your time, but they’re generally amazing and awesome and right. So give yourself permission to feel shell-shocked to hide in your bed, to comfort read your favorite book for the 35th time, and then go slowly through that revision letter. And, and it’ll, it’ll be okay.

[00:10:38] It’ll be okay. It’s awesome. It’s really the most wonderful thing cause it’s making your book better, which is incredible. So let me go back and fish out these other questions in here. Duh, duh, duh. So when it’s being edited, do you suggest keeping working on it or put it away and jump into something else? I generally put it away and start something else. Unless I’m lying around and I think, Oh God, I did not see that plot hole, I’m going to fix that right now. You can start working on it because you can pretty sure that your editor will come back to you and tell you about it anyway, so you know, do it, do what you want. I’m not a big deal. Not a big deal either way. The time to start a stop poking at it is when you send it off for copy edits. So the line edit phase, depending on your structural edit that you got, is often included in the structural edit. Not always. It sounds like perhaps yours wasn’t, align edit can also be included in a copy edit phase. So perhaps you’ll be able to combine those two. And the difference between the two is in line edit is looking at the grammatical construction and of your sentences and their relative ease of reading. Do they make sense or are you being confusing on a sentence level? That’s what line edits are. Copy edits, on the other hand, are things like typos, missing words, improper punctuation. Getting my copy edits always makes me feel like the worst writer in the world who has never heard of the correct usage of a quotation mark or a possessive “S” Like, I don’t know. The old copy edits are the worst. But so you may be looking at possibly folding a line edit into a copy edit round, which is something that you discussed with the editor.

[00:12:25] And yes, I would always use somebody else for the next round of edits because you do want that fresh eye. Your primary structural content editor will have already seen the book, really thought through it, and she will miss stuff next time. Just because she’s already familiar with it. So you generally want to hire somebody else after your copy edits, after all those typos are taken care of. You do also want to get a proofer or two or beta readers because typos will always look past a copy editor as well, which is very frustrating. But there it is. 

[00:12:59] Let’s see. I think that’s all the questions in there. Those were really great questions. Thank you. Thank you very, very much, and I just want to say, Alex, I have not forgotten your question about romance. I’m going to get that back to that in the next mini episode, but I just wanted to thank you Patreons who send in questions are really fun to answer. It’s really fun to talk to you guys mostly about craft kind of things.

[00:13:22] So, that’s great. And I wanted to thank you so happy writing to all of you. Come over, drop me a line at www.howdoyouwrite.net or email me or Tweet or whatever way you want to get a hold of me. And thank you for listening.

[00:13:40] Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.

Maya Hughes can often be found sneaking in another chapter while hiding in the bathroom from her kids! She’s a romance writer who loves taking inspiration from everyday life. She’s the mom of three little ones, the wife to an amazing husband and also works full time. Some of her favorite things are cupcakes, cinnamon rolls, white wine, laughing until she can’t breathe, traveling with her family and Jeff Goldblum. 

How Do You Write Podcast: Explore the processes of working writers with bestselling author Rachael Herron. Want tips on how to write the book you long to finish? Here you’ll gain insight from other writers on how to get in the chair, tricks to stay in it, and inspiration to get your own words flowing. 

Transcript

Rachael Herron: [00:00:00] Welcome to “How do you Write?” I’m your host, Rachael Herron. On this podcast, I talk to authors about how they write, what their process is and how their lives fit together. I’ll keep each episode short so you can get back to writing.

Well, Hello writers! Welcome to episode 170 of “How do you Write?” I’m Rachael Herron.

So we’re pleased that you’re here with me today as we speak to the fabulous Maya Hughes. If you watch on YouTube, for various reasons, she can’t have her face on the internet, and, they are interesting reasons. So you will not see her face, you’ll just see her name flashed up there and let that be a source of wonder to you as you think about why I ain’t gonna tell you. So she’s talking about the wonders of Scrivener and all sorts of other wonderful things. So you are going to enjoy that. 

My voice, if you’re listening and my face, if you’re looking, might sound a little bit different because I’m in a new spot, which I am so excited about that. I am going to talk really quickly about: I have joined a co-working space. I have done this in the past and I have not gone back. It has not been that- I have joined places that have not inspired me to make the track downtown. And, this one’s different. It’s called Sphere, it’s in Oakland. It’s a women’s co-working/wellness place, and it is amazing. There’s a quiet section and a talking section, and it smells like the spa and there’s living walls. It’s really, really inclusive, which is my favorite part. They do a very, very good job of, of attracting women of color and members of the LGBTQ community. In fact, they are the only people that they target with marketing, so that’s amazing. They have a bowl of beads that you can wear if you don’t want to be talked to at all. You’re in noble silence, which I probably won’t wear it, it’s not for me just to be quiet. But they have these podcasting booths and I’m in a phone booth doing this, and there’s a beautiful kitchen and there’s this swing. There is a fitness studio with Peloton equipment. One treadmill, one bike that you can book. They have yoga. They have fitness classes every day at noon that are all included in the price of being in the space. Dude, they have meditation every day at 10:35 AM for 15 minutes. You go into the meditation room and you meditate with other people. It’s amazing. They have a nap time, an optional nap time, which I haven’t used yet, but I plan on trying it. What else? They have all these community building and, networking event, and I’ve already met amazing people. And, and the best part of it is, is that, I’ve been riding public transit to get here. I get in the headspace on my way. I sit next to the window. I look out into downtown Oakland, right now I’m looking at this construction site and the buses going by and people walking and all the guys in hardhats, and I feel like I’m at an office. I’ve never been in an office before, so maybe that’s why I’m really excited about it.

Never worked in a, an office building ever at once in my life. And it makes me have a container for the day. I come here, I work all day, I go home and I don’t work, although probably have to work tonight to upload this podcast. But I’m trying not to work when I go home. And it took four years, but I think I finally grew out of my home office as a place to work all the time. I do. I did used to write a lot at, the mills library or in a cafe. But this is going to be better. 

This already feels amazing and it feels like kind of a home. And I get to go outside and walk around and I’m downtown and there are people and things to eat. And, I walked to a recovery meeting at lunchtime today, that was my lunch break. I walked to it. And it was amazing. So I’m just really, really, really in love with this. And this is where I’m going to be mostly podcasting from, I hope. So, I hope it’s not too echo-y, too gloomy, let me know if it is, if it’s really distracting for you, and I’ll try to figure out how to, compress that out. And I will obviously always do that on my podcast. I always work on the sound quality, but let me know if it’s driving you crazy. 

So, in other news, I’d just like to thank new patron, Whitney, thank you so much for coming along the ride, Whitney, I hope that you enjoy the essays. There is one going out, this week with a major confession and I’m not talking a minor confession. I’m talking about something that really kind of messed me up recently, and, I wrote an essay about it. So everybody in the Patreon community gets that essay. You can get that essay two for a dollar a month. You can always find the over at www.patreon.com/rachael. 

And now let us jump into the wonderful interview with Maya. I know you’re gonna like it. Please come by www.howdoyouwrite.net. Drop me a comment. Tell me how you’re doing. Tell me how your writing is going, and thank you for being here. Happy writing to you. 

Hey, how’s your writing going? Do you swing from word to word like the sentence monkey you are in the enchanted book jungle? or is writing a slog? Maybe you’re not even writing. Let me suggest this: The stronger your resistance is to doing something, the more important it is for you to do. You need a community, and I have one for you. Join my ongoing Tuesday morning writing group from 5:00 to 7:00 AM Pacific standard time. We get together and we write together each week for two hours, and we spend most of that time really writing. Yes, that’s hella early for you, west coast Americans much easier for you, Europeans. But you can do it. You write with company, you get to talk to your peers about what you’re working on, and having that kind of support is invaluable. 

Go to www.rachaelherron.com/Tuesday  for more information. 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:25] Well, I could not be more pleased to welcome this morning to the show, Maya Hughes. Hello, Maya. How are you? 

Maya Hughes: [00:06:31] Hi! So happy to be here. 

Rachael Herron: [00:06:33] Well, happy to have you. Let me give you a little bio before we start chatting about your process. Maya Hughes can often be found sneaking in another chapter while hiding in the bathroom from her kids. She’s a romance writer who loves taking inspiration from everyday life. She’s the mom of three little ones, the wife to an amazing husband, and also works full time. Some of her favorite things are cupcakes, cinnamon rolls, white wine, laughing until she can’t breathe, traveling with her family and Jeff Goldblum. I love that last one. 

Maya Hughes: [00:07:03] Jeff Goldblum is great. He’s amazing. He’s like, I dunno. It’s like he’s a human who’s come to earth like, with an idea of how humans are supposed to act and interact and you’re so like, he’s so charming and you’re just fascinated watching him. 

Rachael Herron: [00:07:19] That’s a really good point. He might be an alien that might actually like come out at some point. I would really like that. It’s hilarious. Okay, so you get a lot done and are juggling so many balls and those are the people I love best to talk to. How do you get it done? How do you get your writing done when and where and how does it happen?

Maya Hughes: [00:07:39] Generally less often than I would like. I try, I wake up very early for some reason, I just managed to survive on less sleep. I think it’s because of the children. They’ve just liked program me for the years, to not need my sleep. So usually most days I’ll wake up, even if I don’t want to, around 4? 

Rachael Herron: [00:08:0h] Oh, it’s really, most people say really early and they mean 6. 4 is really, really, really early. Yeah. 

Maya Hughes: [00:08:11] It was really, really early. So I’ll usually just lay in bed and go, please fall back to sleep, and then I don’t, so about 4:30, I’ll get up and then I’ll come into the office and I’ll try and write for about an hour. And then I’ll, get open, get, get everyone ready for school and all that, and we get into the routine and all that. And then I, I head into the office at work and I do my work stuff, and then, you know, afterschool activities and all of that jazz. And then once everyone is hopefully at least in bed, even if they’re not asleep by seven, seven-thirty and then, you know, my husband and I, we might maybe sit down and watch a show. If there’s something on like Westworld will be starting soon, so we will be watching that once that’s on

Rachael Herron: [00:09:01] Yes, that too, I love that show

Maya Hughes: [00:09:04] I love it. And then, and then I’m just in the office and I’m writing until -or you know, doing admin stuff, marketing, all sorts of other things usually from about 8 until 10 or 11 it’s really hard for me to stop. I kind of just could keep going, but I’m like, no, I need to actually sleep for some amount of time, so I’ve cut myself off.

Rachael Herron: [00:09:26] Wow. And then do you fall asleep as soon as your head hits the pillow kind of thing?

Maya Hughes: [00:09:30] Yeah. I have been known to fall asleep mid-sentence, like my husband, we’re having a full on conversation, he’s just like, and then you stop responding. And then you’re asleep. And I’m up and yeah, I’m a, it is time to go to sleep now and then just power down like a robot.

Rachael Herron: [00:09:46] That’s an admirable quality, honestly. So how do you get through your books? Are you a plotter or a pantser…?

Maya Hughes: [00:09:53] Oh my goodness. So I, I have wanted to be a plotter where I could just write it down and have a solid outline and know every single in and out and just because I managed it once, and that book, it just flew, it like flew by and it was, there were no hiccups, no roadblocks, nothing. And it just, it’s amazing and I’ve never done that since. So, yeah, I tend to try and get the general idea, like I have an idea of the tropes and you know, the characters and their backgrounds and where I, you know, I usually know that ending and I know how they’re going to meet. So for me it’s usually about all the ins and outs and the ups and downs between those two points, which can be, you know, challenging.

Rachael Herron: [00:10:45] Yeah, yeah

Maya Hughes: [00:10:46] Yeah, yeah. So I do a lot of walking with one of my neighbors around the block and we’ll talk through things and I’ll, you know, I feel so bad because I do the same thing with my husband. I feel like half of the time when we’re, you know, spit balling things, it’s mainly them saying, what about this and this meagle, “No, but how about this?” Like, it’s like literally just me being like, that’s a great idea, but no and we’re picking something else.

Rachael Herron: [00:11:11] I love that you say that. Like, my wife is, I think my best plotting help along with a couple of girlfriends, but, she’s literally the best, but every single idea she has, she says, you always shoot it down, but I do go the, no, no, no. I know that’s not it. But that makes me think of something. Yes, that’s exactly right.

Maya Hughes: [00:11:28] Exactly. So it’s a lot of trying to talk things out with people and sort of just, you know spit balling things or writing down things, or I’ll hear someone, you know, while I’m walking somewhere and I’ll hear someone say something and I’ll think, oh my gosh, okay, that could be a great idea. Like right now, I’m a very, I’m like, I think far in advance, so I have my books sort of planned out in a way, in a sense, loosely till 2024 

Rachael Herron: [00:11:58] Wow. Admirable.

Maya Hughes: [00:11:59] So, so I’m picking up these little bits and pieces of all of these stories that are floating around my head, and I use the notes file on my phone and it’s like, Oh, that would be an awesome thing for this character. Or this could be a really solid bit for this character, you know? So I’m just sort of like, 

Rachael Herron: [00:12:21] So useful.

Maya Hughes: [00:12:22] Yeah. And then that sort of how I work, were. As time goes on, I’ve learned that’s one thing about me, I’ve learned that the longer I think about the characters and what they’re going through and their journey, the richer it is. And the more depths there is, and the more they feel like real people. And so it’s almost like I can sort of have a conversation with them and I know about that thing that happened in seventh grade that totally messed them up, even if it doesn’t end up in the book, but they really do become like real people. So it’s kind of like this ongoing ever evolving relationship that we have. You know, in my head. 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:00] I love that. Would you consider yourself an extrovert or an introvert? 

Maya Hughes: [00:13:04] I think I’m an extrovert.

Rachael Herron: [00:13:06] Because I just read something and I used to think I was an extrovert until I really felt myself changing in the last like 10 years or so. And I’m more of an introvert now. And, but I just read something that says extroverts talk out their problems. They speak that they speak them out loud. Whereas introverts tend to like sit and write and think, very quietly and don’t talk them out loud. And it sounds like you have a really good practice of speaking these things aloud with people that you love and, and working through that. 

Maya Hughes: [00:13:37] Yeah. Or by myself sometimes in the car, 

Rachael Herron: [00:13:40] Yeah

Maya Hughes: [00:13:41] Sometimes in the car, I’ll do it to where I’m, I’ll do voice memos, either it’s dialogue. So what happens for me is I’ll almost like a scene will pop into my head and it’ll play like a movie, and I can hear the dialogue and I can see everything and I can, it’s an, and sometimes it’s really hard for me because as I’m writing the story, that first scene that sparked the whole thing will be something that doesn’t make it into the book. Like it just doesn’t work at a certain point.

Rachael Herron: [00:14:05] Oh, that’s painful. 

Maya Hughes: [00:13:07] And it’s so hard cause I’m like, no, this was, this was the seed of the whole thing. How can I get rid of this? But I’ve learned that sometimes you can’t just shoehorn it in. So that’s the stricter-

Rachael Herron: [00:14:16] No matter how hard we try. 

Maya Hughes: [00:14:18] No matter how hard, it’s like, nope, it’s just doesn’t work. So there are times where I’ve really just, I’ll be in the car and there’ll be a scene. And as stupid as I feel doing it, I’ll go in and I’ll just have to say it out loud. And I even tried dictation, it has not worked for me, but I’ll do the voice memos and then I upload it in my computer. I have a program where it’ll transcribe it so I don’t even have to listen to it. And then I just get the actual words and then I, I go, you know, I’ll just add those to my little notes document where I keep them for whatever story that was for.  

Rachael Herron: [00:14:55] What program is that? You don’t have to –tap on your head if you-

Maya Hughes: [00:14:59] Oh gosh. Cause I haven’t used it in a while, It’s Dragon.

Rachael Herron: [00:15:03] Oh, okay, great. 

Maya Hughes: [00:15:04] Yeah. 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:04] Great, I have that on my phone as well. 

Maya Hughes: [00:15:06] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:15:07] It’s worth having it there for the transcription.

Maya Hughes: [00:15:09] Yeah. 

Rachael Herron: [00:15:10] Okay, so what is your biggest challenge when it comes to writing?

Maya Hughes: [00:15:15] So it’s usually either one of two things. Either I’m stuck in the story, there’s something where I just know there’s something that’s not working. I can’t put my finger on it. I can’t, I just can’t place, if it’s someone’s motivation or something in their background or a piece of where they’re going or something is missing and I just, I have to sit and think about it. Which kills me because I want to be writing always because I don’t have much time, you know? And I, I try to space out my releases fairly consistently. So it’s either that or it’s I have the story and I know what needs to get done, and I just don’t have the time. You know, some days, like the 4:30 thing, I mean, I tried to do that at least three times a week. But sometimes, you know, you sleep in and you wake up with the alarm and its time, you know

Rachael Herron: [00:16:03] Cause you need to sleep, right?

Maya Hughes: [00:16:05] Right. I need to sleep. So those are the hard times when it’s like, oh no, so you know, we, I have to take the kids to a sleepover, or they’ve got an orchestra concert and they have something going on and it’s like, so I’m out all day and then we’re tired, you know? So those are, those are the two hardest parts. Either it’s the story and the clicking, or I literally just do not have enough hours in the day to sit down and write. And those are, 

Rachael Herron: [00:16:28] Yeah, and those are two things. You just can’t sit down and fix. 

Maya Hughes: [00:16:32] Yeah, exactly. So I’m like, try and type some on my phone, or I’ll try and type some on my iPad and like gets it. But I just, I’ve learned to just not tried it. Like if, if it’s just not gonna work, I just, don’t force it. Don’t force it. It’s like probably the biggest thing 

Rachael Herron: [00:16:51] That’s a professional thing to do. Sometimes I just force it and then I’ll have 10,000 words that I wish I didn’t have that are not going to work because I’ve been forcing it by, I’m a big fan of beating my head against a brick wall, personally. Yeah. What is your biggest joy when it comes to writing?

Maya Hughes: [00:17:08] I think, well, it’s also one of two things. It’s actually, you know, finishing and like saving that file and just sending it to my editor and having a whole, like two minutes where there’s something that doesn’t need to be done because like the book is like 30% of what goes into actually publishing a book. Like writing a book, I feel like it ends up being such a small piece of what goes into the whole publishing process.

Rachael Herron: [00:17:36] Yeah. Yeah. 

Maya Hughes: [00:17:37] But yeah, so, so that, that moment when I know like, okay, this first draft is done. And then I don’t have to deal with the horror show that will be when the edits come back, but I’m just like, I can drink wine, I can celebrate. That’s amazing. And then I think the other part is just when I start getting people emailing me or messaging me saying, you know how much a character in the story they identified with or they loved or, you know, spoke to them or, you know, move them or made them cry or, you know, something made them laugh, whatever it was, you know, that’s, those are the best. 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:17] I love that. I love that so much. Can you share a quick craft tip of any sort with us?

Maya Hughes: [00:18:24] Sure. I use Scrivener to write my first draft. Sometimes I use Scrivener after I get my edits back. It depends on how I’m lazy I’m feeling because to copy and paste it back in is a little bit – 

Rachael Herron: [00:18:38] Yeah. Yeah

Maya Hughes: [00:18:39] But one of the things that I love in Scrivener, and let me just make sure I’m getting the right name of it. It is, it’s a feature that allows you to isolate only specific parts of speech. So pull it up and it will show you all of the, what is it called? It’ll show you like highlight or it’ll gray out everything except like all of your verbs. So you can go in and you can see all the verbs that you’re using. You know, per whatever it is, chapter, 

Rachael Herron: [00:19:12] I had no idea 

Maya Hughes: [00:19:13] Whatever it is that you’re using. So you can sort of try and cut down on duplication that way. Also, it will allow you to isolate – 

Rachael Herron: [00:19:20] Wow

Maya Hughes: [00:19:21] dialogue only. So you can go through and it’ll just show you all your dialogues so you can just sort of make sure it’s flowing. And I try and do that cause I break down my files, my, so I’ll have like a folder and then each, each chapter is a – I don’t even know what they’re called. Each chapters has its own document. 

Rachael Herron: [00:19:38] Yeah. Yeah. 

Maya Hughes: [00:19:39] So I try and I’ll go through and I’ll, I’ll select only all the documents for one specific character, and then I’ll go through and make sure that it reads like, you know, they’re not reading the same. Because two people aren’t gonna think the same way. So it just sort of helps me. 

Rachael Herron: [00:19:55] That’s mind blowing. 

Maya Hughes: [00:19:56] So I just use that to where is this thing is called? I need to find it. But yeah, so 

Rachael Herron: [00:20:05] People can find it though. Now that they know it exists, they can find it. But-  

Maya Hughes: [00:20:08] Yeah, and it’s amazing. I mean, I just love it because it helps me, yeah, a linguistic focus, that’s what it’s called. It’s under writing tools, linguistics focus. And you can say, show me all the direct speech so you can sort of see, “oh, is this way too dialogue heavy? Does this like chapter, have no dialogue at all?” You know? Or you can do nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs, all that stuff. So you can just, 

Rachael Herron: [00:20:30] That is brilliant especially the dialogue thing, because my problem is in first draft and sometimes second draft. My characters all speak exactly the same. They speak the way I speak, and that is a, that is a revision round for me. That’s a draft, that’s a draft pass where I go in and actually change it to be specifically theirs and that’s, I’d never thought of that. That’s, I never knew that existed on be using Scrivener since it came out. So, wow!

Maya Hughes: [00:20:54] I love Scrivener. There are so many things, like there are other things that like just other tool, like other features that it has. And I’m always like, and it took me, I had Scrivener for a year and a half, a year, year and a half before I finally like opened it and was like, okay, why is this a thing? Like, what makes this worth trying to figure out all of this stuff? Like why? And then I started like watching, the people who develop Scrivener, they have YouTube videos and things like that. And I just sort of started to play around with it and I was like, oh okay, I get it now. And now, like I couldn’t do my first drafts without Scrivener. Like it’s just the snapshot. Like, I love taking snapshots, like all of that.

Rachael Herron: [00:21:36] I like the sounds it makes 

Maya Hughes: [00:21:37] Yes. That’s a very funny sound when it takes it and then, but yeah, being able to compare snapshots and see like, okay, what changed? What didn’t change? It’s just, I love it. 

Rachael Herron: [00:21:47] I’ve actually never compared to snapshot. I take them because I’m scared and I like re-duplication of my saving efforts. But yeah, I’ve never compared them.

Maya Hughes: [00:21:54] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:21:55] That’s interesting. Oh that is good.

Maya Hughes: [00:21:56] I usually after edits. Because when I’ve gotten them back and to be like, oh cause sometimes when it’s with the editor I might go in and make a change and then I’m like, oh crap, I don’t want to lose that and make sure capturing it in the new, you know, new version.

Rachael Herron: [00:22:10] You’re really good at Scrivener. That’s amazing. That’s the, I’m really excited about that. I must hang up now and go in the Scrivener

Maya Hughes: [00:22:19] Play around with it and you know about the name generator, right? 

Rachael Herron: [00:22:22] I do. And it took me a long time to find that. But as also underwriting tools is the name generator. It’s so brilliant, it’s just there. You can up the complexity and, and it’s fantastic, I use it all the time. Cause I don’t care about names, names I’ll just plug in. I’m not one of those people who really, really needs the best name. 

Maya Hughes: [00:22:39] You’re like any name, 

Rachael Herron: [00:22:40] The name that their parents gave them is fine. Okay, so what thing in your life, it can be from any area of your life affects your writing in a surprising way?

Maya Hughes: [00:22:55] That’s interesting. I don’t know how surprising it is though. Music plays a big part I think in my writing.

Rachael Herron: [00:23:02] How so?

Maya Hughes: [00:23:03] So I, I usually start once I start – once a book is maybe three books, from now, like, so that’s, that’s what I consider a close book that’ll be coming out soon. I start making a playlist and building a playlist based off of those characters and sort of their journey and their story and what’s happening to them and how they feel about each other and how they feel about themselves. And so I’ll start sort of like, I’ll go on Pandora or Spotify. And I’ll put it on whatever mood I’m looking for at that time. Like whether it’s like acoustic pop or like ladies’ stuff or whatever it is, today’s hits, that kind of stuff. Or like 90’s music, stuff like that. And then I’ll just start, you know, as it’s playing, you know, I’ll go, Oh, Oh, I think that would be like a song this character would like, and then I’ll add it to the playlist. And then sort of once I’m writing, depending on what type of writing I’m doing or how deep I’m into things and how things are flowing, I’ll just like sort of put that playlist on repeat and just to sort of give me a sort of feel for those to those characters, so-

Rachael Herron: [00:24:05] Does it bother you when there are words in the music at all? Can you still write?

Maya Hughes: [00:24:09] I can still write. I mean, it depends on what type of scenes they are, but yeah, I can, I can write even with the, with the words. 

Rachael Herron: [00:24:18] I used to do that more for some reason, I think I, I don’t know why I really stopped, but there are a couple of books that if I hear the particular songs now, it just throws me right back into the book and that’s a delicious feeling and it’s like a surprise to revisit those books suddenly when a, when a song comes on, it’s actually made me cry before, like a song will come on my, my rotation and like oh, I miss them. 

Maya Hughes: [00:24:41] Yeah. And it’s also something fun to share with readers cause then I can share –

Rachael Herron: [00:24:47] Yeah

Maya Hughes: [00:24:48] with those with the readers. And it’s like another fun little piece of that world of those characters 

Rachael Herron: [00:24:51] I did that once, never again

Maya Hughes: [00:24:55] I mean at least they found it. Now readers have found it and they’re like, Oh my God. Like they’ll go on my Spotify and they can see the same with my Pinterest. They’ll go on my Spotify, they’ll go on my Pinterest and they’ll start like, we’ll have like theories and there’ll be like this lyric said this thing about this person. Like, are you writing a book about that? Like they get, they get a bit into it. 

Rachael Herron: [00:25:11] That’s awesome. That’s really, really awesome. You’re extending your fictional world to them 

Maya Hughes: [00:25:22] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:25:23] And letting them participate. Oh, that’s so cool. That’s a really good answer. What is the best book you’ve read recently or not recently, and why did you love it?

Maya Hughes: [00:25:28] Okay, so it wasn’t recently, it’s an older book. But I love and I think this was maybe the first time I had read, I guess shifters, are they consider paranormal?

Rachael Herron: [00:25:43] Yeah, usually I think. 

Maya Hughes: [00:25:44] Yeah. Yeah. Although there’s no shifting in this actual book, but, Theodora Taylor’s, Her Viking Wolf was I think, the first shifter book I ever read, and I was like, what is this? I love this book. And it was just, it was so fun and it was, has like time travel in it and all sorts of stuff. And it was just, it was a book that I, that I loved and I, you know, go back and I reread it every so often just because 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:07] I have to check it out, I haven’t heard of that one. 

Maya Hughes: [00:26:09] Yeah, it’s great. 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:10] Oh, awesome. Thank you. Okay, now we talk about you. Tell us about your latest book or series a, the one that you want to direct listeners to and where can we find you.

Maya Hughes: [00:26:19] Yes. So I don’t know when this will air 

Rachael Herron: [00:26:25] This will air a couple of three weeks. 

Maya Hughes: [00:26:28] Okay. Okay. Well, I had my release then was today, so it will be on sale or it’s on sale now. It’s a, like a secret admirer, neighbor, next door neighbor, although he’s actually across the street. Friends, celebrities, type of book, and it’s in my, my series of standalones that I have right now. And yeah, I mean, they can, people can find me sort of everywhere. I’m probably more places than I should be. It’s like I’m, you wanna look at my Pinterest boards or Spotify or Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, like, you know, everywhere. 

Rachael Herron: [00:27:07] Oh, you’re on TikTok? I was on TikTok for about 20 minutes and I realized that I lost all concept of who I was as a human being for 20 minutes. And I was like, no, I’ll do this for the next 24 hours. And I took it off my phone. I was so terrified. It was so great. It was such a good place to be. 

Maya Hughes: [00:27:24] Yeah well-

Rachael Herron: [00:27:24] Do you love it? 

Maya Hughes: [00:27:25] Well, I’m, I’m starting on it, so I’m not, so hopefully in three weeks I’ll have a lot more on there for people to, for people to check out. Yeah. But no, I have learned though about taking things off my phone. I actually, last year I took, I was like burned out. And I think part of the reason was I took candy crush off my phone. It’s very – 

Rachael Herron: [00:27:43] Oh

Maya Hughes: [00:27:44] I was like I am spending way too much time on candy crush. I need to get this off my phone. It’s crazy. And then I sort of been working with someone, an author coach and I, we sort of came to the realization that I am, my brain is always going, like always firing. Like it is very hard for me to shut off and just like not be doing anything. So candy crush was kind of like letting my brain just like. 

Rachael Herron: [00:28:11] Yes, 

Maya Hughes: [00:28:12] Chill out for a bit like that shower time, like when you’re just standing in the shower and you get ideas and things are flowing. Candy crush, it was like, it took enough of my attention that I couldn’t think about too many other things, but it wasn’t so time consuming or so intensive that I couldn’t also have the background’s like wheels turning, so I totally put it back on my phone. 

Rachael Herron: [00:28:30] I absolutely love that. That makes so much sense to me and I’ve never heard anybody say that. But that’s your shower time. That’s your spacing out time. And that’s when they say that the default mode network, that’s when the, that’s when it fires up in the brain and that’s when connections start to be made in your, in the back of your mind, not the forefront of your mind. So I think that’s genius. Who – was the author-coach Becca Symes? 

Maya Hughes: [00:28:57] Yes, of course. 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:00] So are you high intellection then? 

Maya Hughes: [00:29:02] No. No. I am. I am restorative, focus, achiever, communication of futuristic. 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:10] Nice

Maya Hughes: [00:29:10] So, yes. So the achiever focus can work against me because I can’t. Stop. Like I can’t ever stop. So, so sometimes I have to, I’ve tried meditation. I’m like, I’m going to be able to do, I’m going to do, I’m going to achieve that. I am going to do it. I have not been able to do it yet. But, so candy crush is like my meditation. 

Rachael Herron: [00:29:32] I love that. And I love that Becca like really tells us what, what the things are okay. Like candy crush is okay on your phone because it’s doing a good thing for you. She told me that like my pain point in writing was just that this is going to be my pain point, but just going to be my pain point. I just need, it’s going to be painful to do this, and I thought, Oh, you’re right. 

Maya Hughes: [00:29:51] Yeah

Rachael Herron: [00:29:52] I can’t make this easy. 

Maya Hughes: [00:29:53] I can’t! I know. She told me I can’t plot. I still, I still say, you know, I reject that premise, but I’m like, I will continue to work at it. I won’t work myself up if I’m unable to, but I’m like, I would like to get to a point in my process where I am able to very clearly see the story and all the roadblocks that might present themselves as it goes so that I won’t hit them. But yeah, she’s, she’s, yeah. No, amazing. Amazing, 

Rachael Herron: [00:30:20] That’s awesome. We’re all proselytizing about her, yeah. 

Maya Hughes: [00:30:23] Totally. Totally. 

Rachael Herron: [00:30:25] Well, thank you so much, Maya, for being on the show. It’s been a absolute delight to talk to you. So I wish you well in your writing and in your sleeping to may you get enough.

Maya Hughes: [00:30:37] May I get enough sleep. Thank you. That is like the best- the best wish that anyone could ever give. A mom. I feel like a – it’s like, may you get as much sleep as you need.

Rachael Herron: [00:30:48] Wow. May you get enough sleep. Alright, thanks so much Maya. It’s been a delight.

Maya Hughes: [00:30:53] Thank you. Bye

Rachael Herron: [00:30:54] Bye

Rachael Herron: [00:30:55] Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of “How do you Write?” You can reach me on Twitter, twitter.com/RachaelHerron, or at my website, www.rachaelherron.com, you can also support me on Patreon and get essays on living your creative life for as little as a buck an essay at www.patreon.com/rachael spelled R, A, C, H, A, E, L and do sign up for my free weekly newsletter of encouragement to writers rachaelherron.com/write/

Now, go to your desk and create your own process and get to writing my friends.